Texas gun instructor refuses to teach Muslims or those who voted for Obama

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

MASON, Texas -- It was a message intended to bring in some extra business. A radio ad for a concealed handgun class at Keller's Riverside Store in Mason, located in the heart of the Texas Hill Country, is causing controversy.
"We will attempt to teach you all the necessary information you need to obtain your C.H.L.," the ad stated. Forty-five seconds in, the advertisement added a disclaimer.
"If you are a socialist liberal and or voted for the current campaigner in chief, please do not take this class. You have already proven that you cannot make a knowledgeable and prudent decision as under the law."
The ad continues, going on to say,"If you are a non-Christian Arab or Muslim, I will not teach you the class with no shame; I am Crockett Keller, thank you and God bless America."
Behind his store off Highway 87 two hours northwest of Austin, 65-year-old Crockett Keller teaches concealed carry courses to earn a few extra dollars. Courses that, he wants to make clear, are not for everyone.
"I call it exercising my right to choose who I instruct in how to use a dangerous weapon," said Keller.

http://www.kvue.com/news/Radio-ad-refuses-service-to-Obama-supporters-Muslims-132748178.html

These are certainly interesting times. The amazing thing is there are plenty of people, both in Texas and elsewhere DEFENDING this man for his stance.

[Evandril]

Do I like his stance? Nope, not in the least...but guess what...It's his *right* to do so. If and when I open my own store (Hobby rather than weapons), I plan on having a sign in full view stating I reserve the right to refuse serivce to anyone. If I'm planning on telling various customers I do not want their buisness, I'm not going to tell someone else they can't do the same...even if he'd not be welcome in *my* store ;)

[Andara Bledin]

I hope he gets buried under anti-discrimination lawsuits.

^-.-^

[Rageaholic]

God Texas is scary.

[draco664]

I hope he gets buried under anti-discrimination lawsuits.

^-.-^

Somehow, I just can't see that happening.

For one, he's not government affiliated as far as I can tell, so there's no deep pockets to pay for the expense of suing him, even if you had a good chance of winning. He's a one man shop doing classes for a little extra money.

Two, it's not employment that's being discriminated against, he's simply stating that he won't do business with certain groups of people. Arsehole-ish, but legal.

[Andara Bledin]

First, just because the law for the state doesn't protect religion as a status that cannot be discriminated against by a private business, that doesn't mean that it should be overlooked because of it.

Second, there's more than just employment that is protected by various civil rights legislature. Just as one should not be discriminated against for their race, one should also not be discriminated against for their religion or their sexual preference or gender.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/ad-gun-training-bars-muslims-obama-voters-153954962.html

According to that article, yes, he can be sued for refusing someone based on 'race, ethnicity, or religion'.

[Andara Bledin]

If he were, say, a wedding dress supplier, he would be free to discriminate, but due to the nature of regulation around gun safety training, he, as with those providing public accommodation (hotels, restaurants) or receiving federal funds (schools, parks), is prohibited from discriminating against those of certain protected classes.

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

Do I like his stance? Nope, not in the least...but guess what...It's his *right* to do so. If and when I open my own store (Hobby rather than weapons), I plan on having a sign in full view stating I reserve the right to refuse serivce to anyone.

Nope, nope and nope. The article itself even states he can't do this. At least read the article first. >.>

"Conduct by an instructor that denied service to individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion would place that instructor’s certification by the Department at risk of suspension or revocation. The Department became aware of the statements in question yesterday and has begun an investigation into the matter."

[lordlundar]

So what's his first lesson, "how to both metaphorically and literally shoot yourself in the foot?":p

[HYHYBT]

I expect the purpose of the whole exercise was to get himself into a position where he can pretend (in that publicity-inducing, sympathy-generating way such people somehow manage) that *he's* being discriminated against for being Republican/Christian/whatever when he's sued/fined/whatever.

[Gravekeeper]

I expect the purpose of the whole exercise was to get himself into a position where he can pretend (in that publicity-inducing, sympathy-generating way such people somehow manage) that *he's* being discriminated against for being Republican/Christian/whatever when he's sued/fined/whatever.

I'm being discriminated against for discrimination? Its a good thing Texas doesn't allow any irony in. Otherwise they might be in trouble.

[draggar]

.. and look at all the free advertising he is getting with this.

Now you know why he did it. ;)

[fireheart17]

.. and look at all the free advertising he is getting with this.

Now you know why he did it. ;)

QFT.

All I could see that ad bringing in is a bunch of rednecks who don't care about much, but want to see those "God-dang Eye-Rack-Ees off my turf!"

[Rageaholic]

I expect the purpose of the whole exercise was to get himself into a position where he can pretend (in that publicity-inducing, sympathy-generating way such people somehow manage) that *he's* being discriminated against for being Republican/Christian/whatever when he's sued/fined/whatever.

Then blame the liberal new age agenda for siding with terrorists over a true American.

[Nyoibo]

Then blame the liberal new age agenda for siding with terrorists over a true American.

I'm sure I'm missing something here in the nuance that's lost through text, but que?

[smileyeagle1021]

I wonder if he realizes that saying he won't teach people who voted for Obama really is a token statement... because how many people who voted for Obama are also applying for concealed carry? Yeah, I know that there are pro-gun democrats (I'm increasingly becoming one, I may need one to protect me from the pro-gun Republican nutters), but they aren't exactly a huge market segment being alienated.

[Rageaholic]

I'm sure I'm missing something here in the nuance that's lost through text, but que?

That's what many extreme fundies believe. They think everyone who doesn't share their extreme views are liberal socialists who are brainwashed by the "new age agenda". They want to go back to how they precieve things were "back in the day".

Here's a thread I stated on this very thing. (http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=5192)

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

That's what many extreme fundies believe. They think everyone who doesn't share their extreme views are liberal socialists who are brainwashed by the "new age agenda". They want to go back to how they precieve things were "back in the day".

Here's a thread I stated on this very thing. (http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=5192)

Not to mention the notion that the only people who can rightfully be called "True" Americans are predominantly white, christian and conservative.

[Zod]

I expect the purpose of the whole exercise was to get himself into a position where he can pretend (in that publicity-inducing, sympathy-generating way such people somehow manage) that *he's* being discriminated against for being Republican/Christian/whatever when he's sued/fined/whatever.

I can see the Fox headline now "Socalist goverment wants to force me to teach Muslims how to kill Americans"

[guywithashovel]

How's he going to know who voted for Obama and who didn't? I really don't know of a way to prove who someone voted for? Can that be accessed somehow?

As for everything else, this doesn't surprise me. Ever since Obama got elected, the right wing in this country has gone completely nuts.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, you know how the political nuts can't stand being even remotely associated with the other side.

Obama's so close to the middle, that the entire right shifted even further right in reaction just to avoid being "tainted" by any proximity to someone associated with the left. :rolleyes:

^-.-^

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

"If you are a socialist liberal and or voted for the current campaigner in chief, please do not take this class. You have already proven that you cannot make a knowledgeable and prudent decision as under the law."

I'd be tempted to sue for him making a slanderous remark about me were I one who went to his class. Just because I voted for Obama (and please do not rip into me for it. It was MY choice which is MY right) does not mean that I have proved incapable of making an intelligent and informed decision.

Claiming otherwise is a slanderous comment about me and with the right lawyer would be actionable.

[Rapscallion]

Not sure about in the US, but in the UK for such a suit to be successful you have to prove what damages you suffered - usually fiscal.

That said, I want to know how this guy thinks his one-man blockade is enforceable.

Rapscallion

[Tanasi]

How's he going to know who voted for Obama and who didn't? I really don't know of a way to prove who someone voted for? Can that be accessed somehow?

As for everything else, this doesn't surprise me. Ever since Obama got elected, the right wing in this country has gone completely nuts.

I guess he would have to take them at their word... Surely no one that voted for the Great and Wonderful Obama would lie just to take the class this guy is teaching would they???:confused:


I'd be tempted to sue for him making a slanderous remark about me were I one who went to his class. Just because I voted for Obama (and please do not rip into me for it. It was MY choice which is MY right) does not mean that I have proved incapable of making an intelligent and informed decision.

Claiming otherwise is a slanderous comment about me and with the right lawyer would be actionable.

He could claim that the statement is his opinion and being political it would be protected speech.

[fireheart17]

He could claim that the statement is his opinion and being political it would be protected speech.

Except how is the guy going to be able to enforce the "voted for Obama" thing? Does he have a copy of the electoral rolls for his district? Does he refuse to accept Electoral College voters? That's what I want to know :lol:

[Hyena Dandy]

He could claim that the statement is his opinion and being political it would be protected speech.

Yeah, but what about the Muslim part?

[Evandril]

Nope, nope and nope. The article itself even states he can't do this. At least read the article first. >.>

"Conduct by an instructor that denied service to individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion would place that instructor’s certification by the Department at risk of suspension or revocation. The Department became aware of the statements in question yesterday and has begun an investigation into the matter."

Yep, I missed that, my apologies. I retract my statement then...he agreed to teach anyone, and is now going against that agreement, and should be treated accordingly. (I'm assuming he was informed of that part of the rules when he received his license to teach, though most likely ignored it ;) )

[Tanasi]

Yeah, but what about the Muslim part?

I don't think there's any protection for him regarding that, if he sticks by that then he could get his license to teach revoked. I'm not defending him BTW, I was trying to point out what he said might not be slanderous or libelous.

I've been a TN state instructor for over 15 years and I've taught all makes and models, I only remember one Muslim that failed the qualifiation and that was the range/firing portion. The man just couldn't shoot, had way too much cartridge for just a small handgun and he couldn't handle the recoil in the manner he choose to shoot. Now his wife could shoot and shoot well.
Of the small portion that fail the majority of those are white women that have never shot before. Give them some practice time and they catch up real quick.
I've only seen 4 or 5 people make a perfect score, 100% on the test 10s or better on the target. Of those all but one were multi-decade competitive shooters. The one exception was a skinny little black guy that had never shot before. He couldn't find ammo for his .357 (not knowing that .38special would work) bought a .44 Automag and shooting full-house (full power) rounds put 50 of 50 rounds within the 10 ring with most of those in the X ring. I now have him on my pistol team and I don't recruit anyone that can't produce. Damn good shoot and a even better person.