Book about corporal punsihement has caused death of 3 children [Archive]

IDrinkaRum

11-07-2011, 10:34 PM

The book,called "To Train Up a Child", is written by Tennessee pastor Michael Pearl and his wife (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/pastor-corporal-punishment-advice-scrutinized-child-deaths-160004793.html)

...recommend the systematic use of "the rod" to teach young children to submit to authority. They offer instructions on how to use a switch for hitting children as young as six months, and describe how to use other implements, including a quarter-inch flexible plumbing line. Older children, the Pearls say, should be hit with a belt, wooden spoon or willow switch, hard enough to sting. Michael Pearl has said the methods are based on "the same principles the Amish use to train their stubborn mules."

At least 2 of the children are adopted children from various countries throughout the world. The third child, I believe is American born and the biological child of the parent who punished him to death.

What I don't understand is how people think this book is great and wonderful? :confused:

And what do they do with a child on the autism spectrum or has ADHD? Plus, there are children who either have a high tolerance to pain, or do not feel pain (not sure of the medical term, but there are children/adults who have that).

This is absolutely disgusting and scary.

Gravekeeper

11-07-2011, 11:42 PM

I....what? The Hell?

Who the fuck thinks this book is wonderful? You're not suppose to raise a child like a feral dog.

IDrinkaRum

11-07-2011, 11:51 PM

Carri Williams had praised the book--which advises that "a little fasting is good training"--and had given a copy to a friend, local authorities say.

There's 670,000 copies of the book in circulation (according to the article). Not sure if that includes books waiting to be sold, book sold, books in houses, books in libraries, books in the "free literature" basket at various churches. But 670,000 copies? WTF is wrong with those parents?

Gravekeeper

11-08-2011, 12:00 AM

I'm more worried about "various churches". I mean, this guy is a pastor? Dear lord -.-

IDrinkaRum

11-08-2011, 12:05 AM

Well, you know ... the Bible does say: "Spare the rod and spoil the child" or something along those lines.

And of course, giving your children the basics (food, water, clothing, shelter) is sometimes just that one thing that will make your child into a raving lunatic serial killer with a preference for old pastors who don't have any idea on how to raise children properly. :rolleyes:

Ahem.

Yes, I am worried about this book. And the idiots who read it and follow it.

I do not want to know what is going through their brains when they read it.

Rageaholic

11-08-2011, 01:18 AM

I was actually about to bump a thread on physical discipline after I read some FSTDT worthy comments regarding that Judge who belted his daughter. In fact, I remember hearing about these spanking books on FSTDT and quite frankly, it freaks me the fuck out. This was before hearing that it may have caused the death of kids. Because even if they survive these practices, they are going to be mentally fucked up.

If you dare, read some of the reviews of this book. (http://www.amazon.com/Spanking-Why-When-How-Lessin/dp/0871234947/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1). It's candy coated squick. Some of these reviewers have not only been messed up emotionally, but sexually as well. I remember hearing one person who was STILL suffering the scars of being brought up by this sickos method (30 years later!). This shit RUINS peoples lives and because it's written by a "Christian" author, people think they're doing the lords work and will most likely encourage others to follow suit :rolleyes:

Don't even get me started on "Spare the rod spoil the child". Every time I see some dumbass using the bible to support barbaric practices, I want to throw up. It's ironic that so many who claim to profess a religion of "love" and "righteousness" are quick to defend using physical violence as a means to discipline. And yes, it's violence. Any other instance, these people would be charged with assault, but when it's their own kids, it's "discipline".

What. The. Fuck.

BlaqueKatt

11-08-2011, 01:44 AM

Well, you know ... the Bible does say: "Spare the rod and spoil the child" or something along those lines.

Don't even get me started on "Spare the rod spoil the child". Every time I see some dumbass using the bible to support barbaric practices, I want to throw up.

actually that is not in the bible-it's from a 17th century poem called Hudibras by Samuel Butler-and it has nothing to do with children, it equates a couples growing love with the growth of a child.

if anyone's interested, the closest biblical verses are explained in great detail here (http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child/), along with the mistranslations leading to interpretation errors.

Kheldarson

11-08-2011, 01:45 AM

Corporal punishment should never be used as a mainstay of discipline. It does have its place, but should never be used to completely traumatize a child. So what the hell are these people thinking?

Andara Bledin

11-08-2011, 02:04 AM

On the whole "spare the rod" commentary, this page (http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child/) at GraceThruFaith.com is a fascinating read.

^-.-^

fireheart17

11-08-2011, 02:09 AM

Just to clarify, the name of the condition where you can't feel pain is known as CIPA IIRC. And usually for those children, they have to do a LOT to avoid injuring themselves, since pain is the signal that something's wrong.

As for the book, W.T.F. Seriously, beating a child with a switch at 6 months old? I'm sorry, but children are not mules, they do not need to be beaten into authority. Especially not with a switch.

Rageaholic

11-08-2011, 04:03 AM

As for the book, W.T.F. Seriously, beating a child with a switch at 6 months old? I'm sorry, but children are not mules, they do not need to be beaten into authority. Especially not with a switch.

Holy shit I missed that part. Though it doesn't surprise me since I recall some posts on FSTDT advocating similar treatment of babies.

Iseeyouthere

11-08-2011, 09:58 AM

This makes me me sick...
If I ever see a parent do this to a child... I will take the rod or whatever and whip THEM, the parent, until they bleed.

You TEACH your child the rights and wrongs. You enforce them and reward good behaviour, punishing bad with lack of T.V or Internet.

IDrinkaRum

11-08-2011, 12:06 PM

I'm trying to figure out what a 6 month old child could have done to warrant such treatment. :confused: I mean ... really! Children that young don't do much except crawl, lay around, sometimes still drool, and poop their diapers. They can be started on "solid" foods like baby cereal. But otherwise? They ain't doing much of anything.

Boozy

11-08-2011, 12:45 PM

You TEACH your child the rights and wrongs. You enforce them and reward good behaviour, punishing bad with lack of T.V or Internet.

You know, I can't recall a time growing up that I was rewarded for good behaviour or punished for bad. Things like television were restricted regardless of how we behaved.

My reward was "Good job, honey!" and my punishment was "We're disappointed in you". Verbal encouragement is almost always enough for children who love their parents. Most children really, really want to love their parents and make them happy.

Until those parents start treating them like "stubborn mules" and beating them mercilessly with rods.

Mishi

11-08-2011, 01:35 PM

Most children really, really want to love their parents and make them happy.

Until those parents start treating them like "stubborn mules" and beating them mercilessly with rods.

Quoted for truth!
Our girls are so very different to how I was when I was a kid. My mother adhered to the beliefs in that book and others like it. According to her: I was rebellious, stubborn, rude, constantly answering back, antisocial, etc. I was raised to believe that her methods were normal, that everyone's mum/family was like that, that Dad knew all about it and condoned it, that if I went to school that I would be forced to turn away from God and that she was only doing it because she loved me and wanted to help me. From the ages of 7-10, I frequently had bruises from knee to waist and was told that the police would be on her side or that they'd put me in the foster system (Her words: "and we all know what happens to kids that go there"), or that she'd have me charged with verbal assault and locked up, or "I know enough people to have you declared mentally unfit. I can have you put into a psych ward and you will never, ever get out." I can't believe that it took me until she threatened to take the girls away for me to realise just how bad she was/is. She actually screamed at me both times because I didn't go into labour according to her schedule!

Our kids are: friendly, happy, caring, polite, sweet, creative, artistic, well-behaved, independent, stubborn, honest, brave, beautiful, wonderful and strong. They take the adjectives in that list for granted, and it makes me smile when Jazzy rolls her eyes and says "I know that, Mummy! You tell me that all the time!"
It makes me tear up when she says "I know Nana R is mean, but Mummy, if we try hard and ignore her being naughty, then we can teach her how to be nice."
We do give them a light, openhanded smack on the rear when they're doing something that could hurt themselves or someone else, but we ALWAYS explain what they did wrong, why it was a bad idea and how to avoid getting in trouble again. They hate the naughty step and quiet time more, so that's much more commonly used. I have no problems apologising if I'm in the wrong, and they know that.

ExRetailDrone

11-08-2011, 02:08 PM

This...makes me see red :pissed: People like this are nothing but sick fucks hiding behind the label of Christianity (which they have nothing in common with in the slightest) in order to get other sheeple to follow their sick fuck ways.

The Pearls, along with many conservative Christians, say the Bible calls for corporal punishment. "To give up the use of the rod is to give up our views of human nature, God, eternity," they write in the book.

What. The. FUCK?! Giving up torturing your children means that you no longer believe in human nature, God, or eternity? Am I interpreting that correctly? What kind of crazy dust are these idiots snorting? I am not Christian, and I have never read the Bible, but from what I understand, I'm pretty sure that Jesus in all his love-everyone glory would be pretty pissed off and disgusted by what these jerkoffs are doing in his name. Christians get a bad rap because of people like this >.<

And Michael Pearl rejects the notion that his teachings bear any responsibility for the childrens' deaths. "If you find a 12-step book in an alcoholic's house, you wouldn't blame the book," he told the Times.

That makes no fucking sense whatsoever. What kinds of 12-step books is Michael Pearl familiar with? The ones that tell you to go brain the bartender at your favorite pub or beat the shit out of the cashier at your local liquor store? 12-step books are for self-help. This fuckwit's book is instructions on how to torture your child. They have abso-fucking-lutely nothing in common!!

Gah, I need to stop...I could rant about this for pages.

Rageaholic

11-08-2011, 03:50 PM

Our kids are: friendly, happy, caring, polite, sweet, creative, artistic, well-behaved, independent, stubborn, honest, brave, beautiful, wonderful and strong. They take the adjectives in that list for granted, and it makes me smile when Jazzy rolls her eyes and says "I know that, Mummy! You tell me that all the time!"

Stories like this always make me happy. It shows that parents don't have to rely on fear based punishment to raise good kids. Good for you for not going down the route you were raised with.

Every time I read a comment about how society is going downhill because parents won't "discipline" (as in beat) their children, I just facepalm. As if that's the only way to raise kids. It's always "in my day we had it much worse". Yeah well, it's OUR DAY now and we are far more enlightened than before. Get with the times or get out is what I say. Then again, it shouldn't surprise me considering these are the same people who believe that everyone is "fallen" and deserves an eternity of torture for being born. :rolleyes:

ExRetailDrone: It doesn't surprise me that this douchebag uses THE LORD!! to not only justify corporal punishment, but to discourage alternate methods. It reminds me of some of the more disturbing quotes on FSTDT (some ending up in the "High Octane Nightmare Fuel" section in TVtropes). For instance Jack Hyles (http://fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=23139&Page=3) (who is thankfully dead now) encouraged parents to beat their children until they cry "tears of a broken will". As if that wasn't enough to make you want to throw up, he then claims that our natural disgust toward doing this is our "rebellion and failure to understand gods ways" or some equally disgusting justification.

It's people like this that make me wish Dexter wasn't a fictional character.

Gravekeeper

11-09-2011, 12:30 AM

My mom would give you an open hand swat on the arse or the arm if you were persistently misbehaving, but it was shock value to get your attention, not for trying to inflict damage or pain. I hath seen this applied on my nieces and nephews, and it would focus their attention on her so she could tell them not to do something if they weren't listening to begin with. Her opinion on the matter is when the mind of a 2-3 three year old is wound up in crazy town and not listening, a quick little swat makes them focus on her so she can tell them to stop doing whatever it is they're doing. -.-

Iseeyouthere

11-09-2011, 01:32 AM

You know, I can't recall a time growing up that I was rewarded for good behaviour or punished for bad. Things like television were restricted regardless of how we behaved.

My reward was "Good job, honey!" and my punishment was "We're disappointed in you". Verbal encouragement is almost always enough for children who love their parents. Most children really, really want to love their parents and make them happy.

Until those parents start treating them like "stubborn mules" and beating them mercilessly with rods.

Rewards I'm talking about about is like getting ice-cream for being good while your parents get fuel for the car, or if you stay quiet during long car rides.

And punishment of no Internet in this day and age is... powerful.

It depends on the child, parent, what they did that determines the course of action. Verbal can only go so far sometimes, but the little gift as reward for doing good helps as well.

Mishi

11-09-2011, 01:46 AM

Verbal can only go so far sometimes, but the little gift as reward for doing good helps as well.

Most kids seem to respond well to positive reinforcement and fair rules. It sounds mean, but teaching small children is almost on the same level as training a dog. They seem to pay more attention to treats than to punishment.

Also, thanks for the kind words Rageaholic! Rugz and I try our best and as far as we can tell, it's working. If it wasn't, we'd change our approach.

The idea of beating a child until 'they cry the tears of a broken will' makes me sick and angry. It's wrong, it's disgusting and it should never be allowed to happen. Even now, my mother doesn't class an argument as over until the other person is crying and asking for forgiveness, and I swear that she gets a smug little smile on her face when that happens.

siead_lietrathua

11-09-2011, 03:23 PM

My mom would give you an open hand swat on the arse or the arm if you were persistently misbehaving, but it was shock value to get your attention, not for trying to inflict damage or pain.

ditto. there is a wide distance between spanking/disipline and beatings/punishments. but the problem is that people use the words interchangebly to fit whatever agenda they are going for :(
i've been spanked as a kid. and i've been beaten as well (by peers, not my parents). they are nowhere near the same thing.

Evandril

11-09-2011, 07:16 PM

ditto. there is a wide distance between spanking/disipline and beatings/punishments. but the problem is that people use the words interchangebly to fit whatever agenda they are going for :(
i've been spanked as a kid. and i've been beaten as well (by peers, not my parents). they are nowhere near the same thing.

I *really* hate defending Fundie Christians, as he appears to be...but this statement above would fit *IN* his book. The article is highly biased against him, and does not include quite a few main points...as in, never punish in anger, and never hit hard enough to bruise. When I was growing up, the types of punishment he's talking about were fairly standard...and yet I hear of more deaths by child abuse NOW than when I was a child. I do think he's taking it a bit far, but to blame the deaths of people who took his examples to an extreme is as silly as blaming D&D for the deaths it 'caused' or heavy metal for all the people it lead into satanism.

He talks about a little fasting is good...ie, "Go to your room without dinner!", not "You don't get to eat for days!". One missed meal here and there won't do serious damage in most cases...and being excluded from the family meal makes one HELL of a point, doubly so, since he also talks about horrible things like making sure to spend more time with your kids, and praising what they do right.

Do I like this book? No, not really...Do I feel it's as dangerous to kids as books that tell parents their kids can do nothing wrong? Nope, not in the least. the over-punishment his book calls for is at least punishment of some sort...and that is far tooo lacking in today's society, IMO

Less biased link to the same story http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/us/deaths-put-focus-on-pastors-advocacy-of-spanking.html?_r=2&ref=us%22+target%3D%22_hplink%22

siead_lietrathua

11-09-2011, 07:35 PM

well ya, i guess it depends on the persons disposition who reads it. after all, taxidermy books are harmless, but stick one in Ed Gein's hands....

the only reason i take to task with the book is it's ideas of attitude adjusting. trying to force people to be happy all the time can make people robotic and withdrawn, which is not a healthy way to bring up kids. heck remember how many people on CS get pissed at customers ordering us to smile. imagine if the order came with condoned physical violence for non-compliance!

Andara Bledin

11-09-2011, 08:08 PM

He talks about a little fasting is good...ie, "Go to your room without dinner!", not "You don't get to eat for days!". One missed meal here and there won't do serious damage in most cases...
Actually, using food as either punishment or reward leads to unhealthy eating later in life. One should almost never use food for discipline purposes, positive or negative.

Although the idea of having the child eat away from the rest of the family, such as having a time out table or similar, would get the same point across without building a foundation for future eating disorders.

^-.-^

AdminAssistant

11-09-2011, 08:18 PM

That is, if families actually ate together at a table anymore. The type of punishment that is effective depends on the family and the child. I would have loved to eat dinner by myself. I liked being in my room. One of the only was to effectively punish me was through emotional manipulation, which my parents are both exceedingly good at.

Evandril

11-09-2011, 08:22 PM

Actually, using food as either punishment or reward leads to unhealthy eating later in life. One should almost never use food for discipline purposes, positive or negative.

Although the idea of having the child eat away from the rest of the family, such as having a time out table or similar, would get the same point across without building a foundation for future eating disorders.

^-.-^

I'd say 'can lead', rather than 'leads', but agreed. I'm not saying the book is a good one... I *AM* saying it's not so bad as to call for this guy's head on a platter, or that he's responsible for the deaths of the kids who's parents happened to own his book.

As far as how 'evil' this book is, using the diet part, I'd say he's on the scale of the guy who made the 'adkins' diet, which sold FAR more than 670k copies.

No, it's not a good book, and no, he's not someone I'd want teaching my kids...but the reaction is WAY out of scale!

Rageaholic

11-09-2011, 08:49 PM

While I agree that those type of books shouldn't be directly blamed for the deaths of the children, I think the psychological damage caused by these methods should be enough of a reason to villianize these people.

Andara Bledin

11-09-2011, 09:27 PM

If the man is advocating corporal punishments with weapons on children who aren't even a year old, then I'm not certain he shouldn't be reviled for writing his book.

The Pearls advocate the beating of a baby of only 7 months for being "angry" and to continue beating the child until it is broken. That's not discipline; it's torture. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or deluded.

They advocate beating children with rubber hoses. What makes it ok to be inhumane against children in the name of discipline? The word didn't even refer to punishment until the 17th century, and now it's a religious euphemism for torture.

Another article at Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/religion-and-abuse-judge-_b_1077778.html)

^-.-^

Evandril

11-09-2011, 10:35 PM

The Pearls advocate the beating of a baby of only 7 months for being "angry" and to continue beating the child until it is broken. That's not discipline; it's torture. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or deluded.

Where did you find this info? I've looked through your link, and a few others (http://www.salon.com/2006/05/25/the_pearls/ is a decent one), and I can't find anything of the sort. They do mention that if your child looks at you with fear, to seek counseling immediately...

They advocate beating children with rubber hoses. What makes it ok to be inhumane against children in the name of discipline? The word didn't even refer to punishment until the 17th century, and now it's a religious euphemism for torture.

^-.-^

When did this fall under 'inhumane'? I can promise you, a rubber hose like they are talking about hurts less, and does less damage, than a belt does...and most people from my generation can tell you what that feels like ;) Again, this seems to be trying to make this worse than it is.

Edited to add: When you have a link that says "X claims this!" and does not link to X claiming that in any way...or even linking to X in the least...Personally, I double check it. If someone is making a damning statement online, linking to it only proves your point, so why not do so?

Andara Bledin

11-09-2011, 11:15 PM

Where did you find this info? I've looked through your link, and a few others (http://www.salon.com/2006/05/25/the_pearls/ is a decent one), and I can't find anything of the sort.
I don't own the book, so must rely on quotes provided by others. Such as an Amazon.com review from someone who was given the book and wrote a review back in June and says, in part, "So when I get to page 74 is when I really thought these people are CRAZY!! They recommend to a mom, who has a 7 month old, to 'switch' him on the bare bottom or leg 7 to 8 times for getting angry. Then if he is still angry to do it again until he gives in to the pain. Oh and the switch for an under 1 year old they recommend is from a willow tree or a 12 inch RULER(pg44)!!" From another review from 2000: "For example, the Pearls recommend switching a 4month old baby on the legs."

Seriously? The advice in this book is demented. The fact that they recommend that people use weapons on their infants is sick.

^-.-^

Gravekeeper

11-10-2011, 03:44 AM

If you have have to reach for a weapon, you're failing as a parent. Even that aside, the book advocates you spank your child from the absolute get go so that you can break him of the habit of crying when he is still an infant:

"Once he learns that the reward of a tantrum is a swift, forceful spanking, he will NEVER throw another fit….If a parent starts at infancy, discouraging the first crying demands, the child will never develop the habit (pg 84)"

The entire book seems on that level of sanity:

"Training is not discipline. Discipline is the "damage control" part of training, but is insufficient in itself to effect proper behavior. Training is the conditioning of the child's mind before the crisis arises. It is preparation for future, instant, unquestioning obedience. (pg 4)"

"The military uses real bullets in training men to avoid enemy fire. Replacing the rod with hollow threats would be to your children like replacing live bullets with blanks. It would get the men killed later in battle. (p 53)"

"An athlete trains before he competes. Animals, including wild ones, are conditioned to respond to the trainer's voice command. (p 5)."

"This book is not about discipline, nor problem children. The emphasis is on the training of a child before the need for discipline arises. It is apparent that, though they expect obedience, most parents never attempt to train their child to obey. They wait until his behavior becomes unbearable and then explode. (introduction)"

Yeaaaah. >.>

This is my favourite:

"As a rule, do not use your hand. Hands are for loving and helping. If an adult swings his or her hand fast enough to cause pain to the surface of the skin, there is a danger of damaging bones and joints. The most painful nerves are just under the surface of the skin. A swift swat with a light, flexible instrument will sting without bruising or causing internal damage. Many people are using a section of ¼ inch plumber's supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around you neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store."

Maximum pain at minimum visible damage that can be reported to the authorities.

bara

11-10-2011, 10:50 AM

bara

11-10-2011, 10:56 AM

"The military uses real bullets in training men to avoid enemy fire. Replacing the rod with hollow threats would be to your children like replacing live bullets with blanks. It would get the men killed later in battle. (p 53)"

Damn straight they do. But, we never SHOT at anyone. The live rounds were always shot down range away from all living things, in a very controlled MOUT training environment, or so over your head by the extremely disciplined marksman so that the worst you had to worry about was a 'wheeeee' sound.

From experience though, that 'wheeee' sound really makes you hug the ground.

Gravekeeper

11-11-2011, 07:50 AM

Pastors dont know how to raise kids.

I can remember 10-15 examples in school (thats a lot for my town), in which the worst behaved kid was a pastors child. Hell, there is one right down the road. Last I heard one of his sons is serving life for repeated felonies and I dont know when the other one is going to get out for attempted rape.

Yep, I can think of two examples from my own high school as well. Overtly religious parents trying to raise them by The Book(tm) as literally as possible. When you control, punish and restrain a child that much, the second they get a sniff of freedom and begin to realise you're not the god of the universe they will rebel hard and fast. Usually going down in flames in the process. Typically occurs when they hit high school. -.-

One of my friends in highschool was one of the examples. He was fine in middle school but became even more and more of an asshole throughout high school till my mom ended said friendship. I don't blame her. He kept going down from that point, till he hit college then he moved as far away from his parents as possible. Like his older sister had before him. He got back on track after that, but still seems to spend a lot of time travelling just so he's not in the same country as them. >.>

His dad wasn't bad, but his mom was insane. When we came over to his place, she would audit our activities to make sure they were Jesus approved. So no RPGs in any form, no video games, only a select few board games were permitted but nothing with monsters in them ( Monsters could be Satan ). A single computer game was permitted: Links. Aka golf. It was the only game he had.

Bedtime was 8pm, no exceptions. Even if it was a weekend and we were all 14-15 years old. Periodic spot checks would be made through out the night to ensure we were in bed.

Panacea

11-21-2011, 12:52 AM

Well, you know ... the Bible does say: "Spare the rod and spoil the child" or something along those lines.

There is such a big difference between discipline and cruelty. Words or blows, if you don't understand this difference you can do a lot of damage to a child.

"Once he learns that the reward of a tantrum is a swift, forceful spanking, he will NEVER throw another fit….If a parent starts at infancy, discouraging the first crying demands, the child will never develop the habit (pg 84)"

That's fucking child abuse. No if ands or buts. You cannot discipline an infant this way. You comfort an infant.

This is my favourite:

"As a rule, do not use your hand. Hands are for loving and helping. If an adult swings his or her hand fast enough to cause pain to the surface of the skin, there is a danger of damaging bones and joints. The most painful nerves are just under the surface of the skin. A swift swat with a light, flexible instrument will sting without bruising or causing internal damage. Many people are using a section of ¼ inch plumber's supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around you neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store."

Maximum pain at minimum visible damage that can be reported to the authorities.

Well heavan forbid you actually hurt yourself punishing your child.

So much for, "this hurts me more than it does you."

Yep, I can think of two examples from my own high school as well. Overtly religious parents trying to raise them by The Book(tm) as literally as possible. When you control, punish and restrain a child that much, the second they get a sniff of freedom and begin to realise you're not the god of the universe they will rebel hard and fast. Usually going down in flames in the process. Typically occurs when they hit high school. -.-

Yeah, I had friends with crazy parents like this growing up.

One guy I knew (not a friend) was the son of a local Baptist pastor. He once tried to berate me in front of an entire class that I was a devil worshipper because I had the Dungeon Master's Guide. He told me I was going to hell.

He later went away to college, and then came out to his parents. :rolleyes:

Andara Bledin

11-21-2011, 01:50 AM

I know a person with a couple of kids. They're both doing ok.

Her sister, on the other hand, is a very strict religious type. So the person I know made a point of becoming friends with her niece and nephews for the express purpose of being someone they could turn to if and when they decided to escape their mother's smothering grasp.

As it stands, now, two of her nephews have escaped across the country to their aunt, a third is on the way, and one nephew and the niece appear to be following in their mother's footsteps.

^-.-^

Seifer

11-25-2011, 04:31 AM

Violence should be the absolute LAST resort for anything, especially child rearing. Infants can't control their own behavior (they're fucking infants, jesus), so they should NEVER be punished. Young children (between 2-4, possibly older) are still in a developmental stage where all that matters to them is themselves. They can't fathom the world from another person's viewpoint, and all that matters to them is their own needs. It's a BIOLOGICAL issue - they'll eventually grow out of that phase. You don't "beat it out of them", you work with the child so they can begin to see the big picture. This is why sharing is such a huge issue in Pre-K, Kindergarten, and first grade.

Probably the age where parents really want to use violence to keep their kids in line would be the teenage years (since teenagers are known for being huge pains), but again, there are other ways to deal with bad behavior. Strip the teenager's bedroom of everything but the mattress and a lamp, if that's what it takes - as long as you're still feeding them and giving them the necessities, it's fine. See how long they can live without tv, their phones, videos games, the internet, etc.

wolfie

12-18-2011, 08:48 AM

Even now, my mother doesn't class an argument as over until the other person is crying and asking for forgiveness, and I swear that she gets a smug little smile on her face when that happens.

And what about cases where your mother is WRONG?

From what I've read here, it seems that all a child will learn from this method of parenting is "I'm stronger than you are, therefore you will do what I tell you or I'll beat you up". Great way to teach your kid to be the school bully. Of course, when the kid is grown up, and the parent is old and frail, the shoe is on the other foot.

Rageaholic

12-20-2011, 05:03 AM

For more details on one of the stories (and for some high octane nightmare fuel) check out this Anderson Cooper video on it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5EDVVP861Q) Basically, these nutcase parents beat their adopted daughter for SEVEN HOURS. The older one called the police, but they were too late to save her.

This Pearl guy sounds like a real creep. When asked why not use your hand, he said something to the effect of "it doesn't hurt". He says that the punishment must cause pain. While I can't blame him for the deaths of the children, I can blame him for his ifluencing parents to use harmful techniques in the name of "discipline" and god.

Panacea

12-20-2011, 03:36 PM

This Pearl guy sounds like a real creep. When asked why not use your hand, he said something to the effect of "it doesn't hurt". He says that the punishment must cause pain. While I can't blame him for the deaths of the children, I can blame him for his ifluencing parents to use harmful techniques in the name of "discipline" and god.

He is a real creep. I saw an interview of him, he also said don't use your hand because you'll hurt your own hand. Inflicting punishment shouldn't hurt the punisher, apparently.

So much for, "this is going to hurt me far more than it will hurt you!"

'Course, when Dad said that to me, I didn't believe him. I couldn't sit down for an hour. :rolleyes: