Mindsets about Friendship/Exs

[Shangri-laschild]

I'm best friend's with J. About 4 years ago he and I dated for about 5 or 6 months. We have both agreed that neither of us is what the other needs in a relationship. There's no hard feelings about it having ended and no romantic feelings still there. I consider him my best friend who I happened to date, not my ex who I'm best friends with. During this friendship I've encoutered two things that really have started pissing me off more and more.

1. "He's a guy and you're a girl so either he's hoping to get with you or he's gay." When talking to relatives and the subject came up, I've actually gotten this attitude.
"So you're together?"
"No."
"Oh, so he's gay then."
"No."
"Either he's interested or he's gay."
No amount of saying, no we're just friends and guys and girls (or two people who are interested in each other's gender) can be friends without wanting something more out of the other will convince them. And while it's from relatives usually, it's not even a "honey, no straight guy wouldn't like you" type thing, it's a, no straight guy is friends with a girl who he's not trying to get with.

2. The mentality that Exs can't be friends or at least, not close friends. This one especially seems to shows itself in relationships where people we date don't like the idea of us still being friends since we've dated despite it being years ago. He's had two girlfriends who have basically tried the "her or me" shit which didn't work out well for either of them. This is despite him being a good boyfriend and putting them first and our hang out time dwindling a lot. I haven't had quite as much trouble from guys I've dated but I do seem to sense an uncomfortable vibe from them at times.

So I'm trying to figure out this mentality. It seems to be more of a common mentality than makes sense to me but then again, the majority of my really close friends have always been guys who seem to mind a bit less. Thoughts or opinions?

[BlaqueKatt]

it's not even a "honey, no straight guy wouldn't like you" type thing, it's a, no straight guy is friends with a girl who he's not trying to get with.



I totally feel your pain on this.
My personality is more masculine, plus I'm married, I tend to get along better with males, due to never liking fashion, "sex in the city", "clubbing" or any of the traditional girly stuff. Also ay female I have ever been "friends" with accuses me of trying to "steal her man"-usually because I help them work on cars, play video games, etc. They never listen when I tell them to take an interest in what your SO is doing if you want him to stop asking me for advice on things. Stop being a jealous harpy-I have a husband, I don't want yours. If people keep stealing your men maybe the problem is you. Men don't like insecurity, it's unattractive-I've always been considered "one of the guys". One of my guy friends actually described me as "your mom, sister, and best friend in one convenient package-adding girlfriend to that would overstuff the pacage and mae it weird."

And I think the mindset comes from projection, they can't be friends with a member of the opposite sex without hanky-panky so of course no one else can either. Never mind that people have different personalities.

[protege]

And I think the mindset comes from projection, they can't be friends with a member of the opposite sex without hanky-panky so of course no one else can either. Never mind that people have different personalities.

I hear ya on that one. Several idiots I work with couldn't get over the fact that quite a few of my friends are female. They were of the mindset that I'm a "dirty old man" or that I must be doing them. Why? Simply put, I got along with our female employees better than they did...mainly because I didn't spend the entire time hitting on them or making stupid jokes. I guess they felt comfortable with me. Things weren't helped by both of us picking on each other constantly.

As for being friends with one's ex, it doesn't always work out. Sometimes, it's more trouble than it's worth.

[lordlundar]

And I think the mindset comes from projection, they can't be friends with a member of the opposite sex without hanky-panky so of course no one else can either. Never mind that people have different personalities.

Pretty much. I swear, if you tell these types of people it's a platonic relationship, they'll ask "what's platonic?" because they can't wrap their minds around the concept.

[Rapscallion]

they'll ask "what's platonic?"

Same guy who invented the plate, right?

Rapscallion

[miyon]

I totally understand Shangri-laschild. Me and my ex-husband split up about 7 years ago but we are still best friends. Its kind of stalled a bit since I moved back home but he is like a brother to me.
When I still lived near him we would go to movies, shows, watch our fav tv shows together.
My family always calls him a bastard for wanting a divorce but a few months after the split we both agreed that though we love each other we dont have any romantic feelings for each other. I have no hard feelings about the breakup. The only thing I missed was having him around the house because it was pretty much like living with your best friend.

He started dating this girl about 6 months after the split and she would get very upset when me and him talked, went to a movie, etc. He told her that I will always be apart of his life and she will need to learn that.

[Dreamstalker]

My mom and biological dad (divorced when I was...10 or so) are still on good terms, we'll all go to dinner if he's in town or we're in his neck of the woods. A number of my mom's friends are surprised by this ("You still talk to your ex-husband! OMG!")...I'm not sure why exes aren't "allowed" to get along.

I'm trying to stay friends with the ex, but it can be trying at times...I think he's never had anyone to tell him to get off his arse and do something (I still kinda like the guy as a friend, but his persistent negative attitude about everything and idea that I must pick up the phone every time he calls* is starting to really piss me off).

* Dude, have you ever considered that maybe the reason I don't pick up the phone is because you're so negative?

[McDreidel09]

I've been wondering the same exact thing. All of my exes ended up being friends with me after the relationship was over. One of my closest friends was my first love and the guy I gave my virginity to. We just hang out,watch movies and all that neat shtuff.

I get along better with guys. Girls can be too catty. Therefore, I am sleeping with ALL my guy friends and am a whore. I just feel more comfortable with guys and I feel like I can tell them anything,without the rumors going around (most of the time anyway.)

[jedimaster91]

The exes and I really don't talk much. A few because they really turned out to be jerks and I don't want anything to do with them, and one because he moved across the country and we just grew apart. I'd like to keep in touch with him more, but he's really bad about returning e-mails.

I admit I would be uncomfortable if my husband had close female friends in the area. It's not that I'm worried about him cheating on me, but he married me not them. I do respect the friendships he made before we met, many of them female, and I'm glad he keeps in touch with them. I'm also glad they live across the country. ;)

And yes, I too, have more male friends than female friends. I do worry about appearences of impropriety, but at the end of the day, my husband trusts me, I trust him, and we know that any relationships we have with members of the opposite sex are stricly platonic.

[powerboy]

I am friends with several friends, and a few men cannot accept that fact I am not sleeping with them. I prefer to be the brotherly type to them. Only two of the female friends of mine, I would date if that chance came up.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I've got a lot of guy friends; during the time that I was temporarily split from my boyf, two of them became friends with benefits...

I have noticed too about the mindset a lot of girlfs seem to have about their boyf's female friend. -.- There is one guy friend I have who I never could date in a million years; even when I was single, I never considered it cuz there was just no spark. He's the same; we're good mates and have kisses (on the cheek!) and cuddles, but no hanky panky. One of his exes was a total bitch about that. She kept hanging around like a spare wheel whenever we hung out together, and grilled him on every hug and kiss that he gave me. Eventually, her jealousy bit her in the arse, cuz he ditched her over it.

Him and me have been friends since primary school. We are not about to stop messing around and hugging each other just cuz some insecure bitch throws a hissy fit. And for the record, my boyf has female friends; I'm not bothered. Yes, he does hug them and kiss them on the cheek, but he's with me and I'm not about to turn into a bunny boiler just cuz he hugs other females.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

Yeah I've been on the receiving end of that a few times.

I had a very good friend in Santa Fe for years named Arnold. We've been both co-workers and neighbors, among other things. I met him through a schoolmate at a wine tasting she hosted, and later ran into him again at a job and struck up a friendship. He later got me an apartment across the street from his house, where I lived for a year before moving to Oregon.

We were quite close. He used to live in the basement of this big old house, kinda care-taking it for the family who owned it. It was fully furnished but empty. When I had guests unexpectedly arrive from Palestine, he let them stay there for nearly a week as I didn't have any place else for them. And of course, he entertained them with his wonderful stories. (at which point they'd go "Milkie! He's just like you! Tells the most awesome stories!")

People used to trip when they'd see us out together. What am I, a mid 20's (at the time) white female in bizarre vintage looking getup, petticoats and strange hair colors, doing running around with some black guy in his late 50's (at the time) who looks like an old hippie who managed to make himself some money? People just couldn't figure that one out.

We had totally different backgrounds, but very similar personalities, and we used to have a lot of fun together. We told each other all kinds of stories (his were just so much awesomer than mine, but that's because he'd had more time to go out and do crazy things, I'm sure), and we used to stalk certain haunted buildings in Santa Fe looking for ghosts. I used to watch his dog when he went out of town, and he would run interference with my landlady, cause she was half-crazy and drove me nuts, but he was friends with her. We smoked a wee bit of the loco weed on occasion (he WAS a hippie, after all!) and would climb on top of my roof to watch the sunset and make fun of the neighbors under our breath.

I was also called upon to inspect possible girlfriend material, lol. That was always hilarious, as he'd ask me outrageous questions about them later just to annoy me. Do you think she's the type of woman who would leave her bloody panties on the bathroom floor? Is she the kind of person who'd get mad if I joked about letting the dog in bed with us?

People who can't imagine having a friendship like that like to assume that no one else could either. It's been 3 years since I've seen him, and I miss him all the time. He was a great friend. :cool:

[MystyGlyttyr]

Almost all of my friends are guys. You know in movies and whatever there's always that one girl in the group of guys? That's been me most of my life. There's the guys and the girls and I just happen to be with the guys. No one ever thought much of it until after I got out of school, at which point it was suddenly pointed out to me that girls and guys aren't supposed to hang out. :confused:

If anything though, it's because of ME, not the guys I'm with, that we're just friends. I'm not a typical girl, I never have been a typical girl. My behavior, my mindset, etc., means most of my guy friends look at me and see a guy who happens to have rather large chest muscles and who gets cranky and eats a lot of red meat once a month. They don't jump in front of me in a bar fight and they only rarely come to me for advice with their girlfriends.

Speaking of those, I've always had far, far more trouble from their girlfriends than anyone else though. These women just can't believe that their boyfriend can pal around with another female without there being some raging lust involved. I'm sure the wrestling part doesn't help, heh.

[freeatlast]

One of my closest friends in the world is the guy I was dating when I met the guy I married. He had to cancel our date because he was called into work, so I went out with a friend of mine and met my husband to be that night. Even though I broke up with this guy to date the guy I would end up marrying, he and I remained very close. A few years later, he brought the girl he was going to propose to over to meet me and to get my approval before asking her to marry him. To this day, we remain close. His wife and any guy I have dated since my divorce have been forced to understand our relationship. I also have remained good friends with my ex-husband. (I often say that he makes a much better friend than husband.) I am also friends with his current wife. She loves my daughter as if she were her own and I really think that my being good friends with her father and stepmother has been really good for my daughter.

[Saydrah]

I have pretty much all guy friends, plus there's the polyamory thing, which makes it pretty tough to explain to people the difference between male friends and male partners... sigh. I think the people who say a guy and a girl or a girl and her ex can't be friends without benefits are really just saying, "I couldn't have an opposite sex platonic friend, or be friends with an ex," and attributing the same to others for no good reason.

[Sylvia727]

Along similiar lines, I spent some time researching official etiquette on weddings for a friend of mine who was married this last summer. One of the biggie topics was male bridesmaids and female ushers. I forget which of the many etiquette manuals made this point, but it said that traditionally the bride's attendents were female and the groom's attendents were male simply because that's the gender their friends were. There weren't any men attending the bride because she wasn't friends with any men.

Only in the last few decades has it been widely socially acceptable to be close friends with a member of the opposite sex. In the recent past, folks got around this bias by putting the groom's female friend with the bridesmaids and the bride's brother with the ushers. Social attitudes have now come even further. This fact is now slowly changing the gender distribution of the modern wedding party. More and more people are putting the bride's friends with her and the groom's friends with him, regardless of gender.

This trivia brought to you today by Sylvia's Hindbrain. :p

[protege]

I've always had plenty of female friends. Not sure why, but probably because I didn't spend all my time hitting on them. That caused some um, interesting comments around the office.

Several years ago, we'd hired on "Raquel" as one of the interns. For some reason, we hit it off. However, because we worked together (and because technically I was her supervisor) nothing could happen. Even if I wasn't, I wasn't about to bring that crap into the workplace if it headed south. Too bad, since she was very sweet, not to mention hot :p Even so, we were constantly picking on each other. Nearly all of my coworkers started calling me the "dirty old man" simply because I was a few years older. Last I heard, she left for another company, and I haven't heard from her since :(

Most of those comments simply came about because they were jealous ;)

[Gawdzillers]

Actually, I'm very much interested in a few of my female friends.
Several of them know this.

[Shangri-laschild]

The nice thing about starting a relationship with someone I'm already friends with is that I dont' have to worry about the whole "crap...when do I explain about J" thing. Whoever it is, already knows. It just gets interesting when they are good friends with J as well.

[blas87]

Right now is the only time in my life where I've had as many female friends, if not more, than male friends. I've always been one of the guys. Mostly because I'm not very ladylike and can be really disgusting and funny and guys tend to like it.

So odd....every guy wants to be friends with me, no guys want to be with me. At least none of the ones I'd want to be with.

I admit I do have a problem dating a guy with a lot of female friends if they act like more than friends. My guy friends and I kick each other playfully or punch each other...that's about as affectionate as we get. We don't hug, we don't hold hands, we don't dance....and my guy friends are all ugly or fat. I hate to be rude, but none of my guy friends are my "type". Most guys I date have lady friends who are all rail thin and gorgeous little supermodels and they hug too much and dance it really bothers me.

[Boozy]

...and my guy friends are all ugly or fat.

If this is what you say about your friends, I'd hate to be your enemy. ;)

[blas87]

Oh poppycock, Boozy ;).....my guy friends just simply aren't the type of guys I typically date or go for. I'm not attracted to them. I have one guy friend who doesn't date skinny girls, and he thinks I'm too skinny. We're just friends. His opinion of my looks doesn't affect our friendship. At least he's honest with me. Obviously I think he's a little wrong for thinking I'm "too" skinny, but at least someone can be honest with me. And that's what I treasure about my guy friends.

[Rapscallion]

Thing is, from my observations and cynical outlook, I would bet money (not a lot) that those guys who you claim to be 'just friends' would actually make better material for long term relationships than those you find exciting and attractive.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

Thing is, from my observations and cynical outlook, I would bet money (not a lot) that those guys who you claim to be 'just friends' would actually make better material for long term relationships than those you find exciting and attractive.

Rapscallion

No way in hell I'm denying that. I believe that about most girls I know that always seem to date the wrong guy.

[Boozy]

Oh poppycock, Boozy ;).....my guy friends just simply aren't the type of guys I typically date or go for.

I realized that I had quoted the wrong part of your quote when I responded before. I have since fixed it.

There's nothing wrong with not being attracted to certain "types"...but Raps has a point. You've had some rough luck with men, and I can't help but wonder if you're choosing the wrong guys.

[Slytovhand]

But the body doesn't really care about personality... all it wants to do is keep the species going with it's little bit of the gene pool.

It's humans trying to assert their control over them with this 'personality' and 'relationship' thing that creates all those problems....

I now have 2 questions to ask.

First, if you've been friends with someone for a while, how do you take it to the 'next level'?? After all, as was just said in the previous couple of posts, if friends would make for better relationship material, it sort of implies a lack of chemistry.

Second, and slightly OT, if a girl is sort of 'playing' with a ring (as in sort of sliding it on and off), what - if any - significance is that? What's running through her head??


Slyt

[Lace Neil Singer]

I can answer your first question, seeing as during the time when I was single, I ended up sleeping with two of my friends. (Not at the same time, so get your minds out of the gutter, you perverts! XD)

Basically, we were so comfortable with each other, and we were all single, and of course there was alcohol added to the mix, that it just seemed natural to take it to the next level. Next day, there wasn't any awkwardness at all and I'm still friends with both guys. I can't speak for all girls tho, but in my case it was just a bit of fun and nothing to get in a lather about.

[AFPheonix]

As for the second question, if she's anything like me, she just has to play with something, and that includes rings. I don't sit still well.

[Shangri-laschild]

I now have 2 questions to ask.

First, if you've been friends with someone for a while, how do you take it to the 'next level'?? After all, as was just said in the previous couple of posts, if friends would make for better relationship material, it sort of implies a lack of chemistry.

Second, and slightly OT, if a girl is sort of 'playing' with a ring (as in sort of sliding it on and off), what - if any - significance is that? What's running through her head??


Slyt

My two longest and closest relationships were with guys I had been good friends with for a bit. The first one, one our mutual friends just randomly told me that he liked me so I asked him out. The second one, we had been snuggly and things just sort of became fairly obvious as the snuggling got more serious. Dunno if I have any suggestions in your case other than just go for it, and if it's a good enough friendship, it won't matter if they say no.

As for the second one, I know I fidgit a lot, especially with my fingers, so since my rings are on my fingers, they get fidgeted with a lot. Doesn't actually mean anything. What was making you think it meant something more?

[Slytovhand]

Hey Shangrila..

No, no-one in my life like that - just wondering (cos I've heard the "I just want to be friends" line a fair bit... especially when they've just broken up). I have actually gone beyond a friendship once or twice ('twice' depends on how you define 'friendship').

As for the second question, just came to mind as I was chatting to a work colleague, and while I was talking with her, was 'playing' with her ring (not sure of the significance of it). I do know that in body language circles, sometimes playing with jewellery while looking someone in the eye can be significant.

But then... my best skill in life is mis-reading a sign :p

Slyt

[Shangri-laschild]

As for the second question, just came to mind as I was chatting to a work colleague, and while I was talking with her, was 'playing' with her ring (not sure of the significance of it). I do know that in body language circles, sometimes playing with jewellery while looking someone in the eye can be significant.

But then... my best skill in life is mis-reading a sign :p

Slyt

I am horrible at reading signals as well :)

[Slytovhand]

Hey - we should get together.....:p

[Shangri-laschild]

We can be perpetually confused together :D

Someone who's friends with myself and J were talking yesterday about the crazy ex. I still don't get how you can date someone (she kept bringing up marriage so she really did consider this a serious, we're going to grow old together thing) and not trust them with someone of the opposite gender. I guess I can't see ever being in that close of a relationship with someone if I didn't trust them about that kind of thing.

[Slytovhand]

I totally agree... (on all the above :p)

I can't understand how if you're with someone now who you aren't completely happy with, you would want to commit yourself to spending the rest of your life with them - rather than let them go and find someone who does make you happy.

But then - humans like to complicate things.....

[Lace Neil Singer]

I fiddle with my hair, or with my earrings; it drives my boyf nuts. XD No, it doesn't mean anything, cept I probably feel the need to keep my hands busy.

[AdminAssistant]

Second, and slightly OT, if a girl is sort of 'playing' with a ring (as in sort of sliding it on and off), what - if any - significance is that? What's running through her head??

I fidget when I'm nervous....

[Greenday]

I can't understand how if you're with someone now who you aren't completely happy with, you would want to commit yourself to spending the rest of your life with them - rather than let them go and find someone who does make you happy.

Because they don't want to let you go and you don't want to break them.
Because you fear being alone.
Because you are too lazy.
Etc.