Women Raping Men [Archive]

Greenday

07-16-2008, 05:48 PM

How nice of Pedersen to suggest a thread like this. Sorry for stealing your idea.

I for one think it's very possible to do. Two words: morning wood. You go to sleep and wake up with a hard-on. You don't wake up, then get one. You wake up with one. This means that it's possible to have one while sleeping. How about a spiked drink with a roofie/viagra combo? Or what about getting some guy really drunk who had no intentions of doing anything when he was sober? I mean, if it's rape when a guy gets a girl drunk to have sex with her, why isn't the reverse true?

I have a friend who goes to college in Boston. He was telling me about how there's quite a few guys who have been knocked out with roofies or something and were raped, then, when they went to police, the cops blew them off, saying guys can't be raped because they have to want it to have sex. And then if the girl gets pregnant, the guy is totally screwed (figuratively and literally) and might be stuck paying the girl for 18-22 years for raping him. How fair is that kind of crap?

Pedersen

07-16-2008, 06:12 PM

How nice of Pedersen to suggest a thread like this. Sorry for stealing your idea.

You're welcome. And don't apologize. It makes for a decent thread.

I for one think it's very possible to do. Two words: morning wood. You go to sleep and wake up with a hard-on. You don't wake up, then get one. You wake up with one. This means that it's possible to have one while sleeping.

Absolutely it's possible. Simple fact that women like to laugh about: The penis has a mind of its own. The guy can be totally turned off by a given woman. However, if she has physical access, physical control over the situation, and even mild sexual skill, she can give him an erection (either through oral sex or manipulation from her hands).

This is purely a biological reaction. It has nothing to do with the brain, nothing to do with attraction. Attraction makes it easier. Desire makes it easier. But even absolute loathing does not prevent it.

So yes, this sort of rape is very possible. However, it will take several acts of god to make such a charge stick, because too many people believe the guy has to want it (and, what's more, that he does want it from any woman he can find).

And then if the girl gets pregnant, the guy is totally screwed (figuratively and literally) and might be stuck paying the girl for 18-22 years for raping him. How fair is that kind of crap?

It's not. The problem, though, is proving it. And proving, in this case, means a guy proving to a jury that he did not want to have sex after putting himself in a location where it is reasonable to believe he would have a) been able to find sex and b) likely not have gone if he wasn't after sex.

Convincing a jury of that will be, at best, difficult. No, it's not right, it's just what is.

Norton

07-16-2008, 06:21 PM

I absolutely believe that it's possible for a woman to rape a man, and probably happens more often than any of us realize. It's probably woefully under-reported out of embarrassment, and out of fear of not being believed.

It's not right. Any kind of rape isn't right, whether the victim is male or female.

Or what about getting some guy really drunk who had no intentions of doing anything when he was sober? I mean, if it's rape when a guy gets a girl drunk to have sex with her, why isn't the reverse true?

I've always believed that once someone makes the decision to become impaired, they should be liable for whatever action they take while impaired. If at the beginning of the night while sober, the person says "no", then later after several drinks says "yes", I feel that counts as consent - sure, it was the alcohol that changed their mind, but they made a conscious decision to drink in the first place. The only exceptions would be if the person was forced into drinking, or slipped a drug without their knowledge or permission. I think too many people - both men and women - use alcohol as an excuse for sleeping with someone they normally wouldn't, and some are so embarrassed once they sober up again that false rape accusations are made. To me, "but I was drunk!" is a sorry excuse. Of course, if an intoxicated person says "no", that should be respected.

Greenday

07-16-2008, 06:31 PM

I've always believed that once someone makes the decision to become impaired, they should be liable for whatever action they take while impaired. If at the beginning of the night while sober, the person says "no", then later after several drinks says "yes", I feel that counts as consent - sure, it was the alcohol that changed their mind, but they made a conscious decision to drink in the first place.

As long as that goes for both ladies and gents, I'll agree to that. Being drunk is not an excuse. As far as my experiences being drunk, and my experiences being around drunk people (which, being in college, is A LOT), I've realized that people know full well what they are doing what they are doing while drunk, and later on only use being drunk as an excuse as for why they did what they did. Maybe I'm just different in that the only thing that changes about me when I become drunk is that physically I lose some coordination. But one thing is for certain, my thinking is clear as hell. But I find it too hard to believe that after a few drinks, you have no control over your thought processes.

Lace Neil Singer

07-16-2008, 07:29 PM

I believe I mentioned this on another thread in here somewhere; I will repeat what I said. Guys get a hard on while being executed; so it's true that you don't need to be turned on to go hard. Second, I'm sorry if this sounds disgusting, but it still counts as rape if penetration is achieved using an instrument. For example, a woman who drugs her male victim and uses a vibrator on him. Still counts. There are also cases of young boys being raped by female pedophiles. It's true that female on male rape is woefully unreported; just like male on male. A lot of men would be ashamed to come forward and report that they'd been overpowered and humilated in that way.

Greenday

07-16-2008, 07:43 PM

Second, I'm sorry if this sounds disgusting, but it still counts as rape if penetration is achieved using an instrument.

I thought about that, and I agree, but I didn't post anything about it because it's slightly different. It seems like it's a lot more understandable that that could be forced on someone. I mean, you can't really argue that it's not rape if a guy is tied down or knocked out and has stuff shoved inside him. But seeing as guys have to be aroused to have regular sex, that means they always want it. :rolleyes:

Lace Neil Singer

07-16-2008, 07:57 PM

Yeah, cuz of course every single guy having an execution has sex on his mind! -.- Or fast asleep; yup, he's thinking about sex. Even a natural death can cause an erection.

IDrinkaRum

07-17-2008, 01:23 AM

I remember back in the 80's on the show, "Too Close for Comfort", Jim J. Bullock's character was raped by 2 females. It was an interesting episode, and one I haven't seen repeated in any type of show since.

crazylegs

07-17-2008, 12:24 PM

During the REM (Rapid Eye Movement) stage of dreams an erection always occurs, even with those men who have erectile dysfunction, so yes it is entirely possible.

In addition men will also have an erection if there is severe spinal damage, I can't think many men will have sex on the mind while in terrible pain.

In addition in UK law rape is seen as the insertion of the penis without consent into either the vagina OR the mouth OR the anus, which adds a different spin onto things.

Lace Neil Singer

07-17-2008, 08:43 PM

Greenday

07-17-2008, 08:54 PM

Pedersen

07-17-2008, 08:59 PM

Actually, Greenday, re-read what crazylegs wrote. Rape is the forced insertion of the penis into the vagina. So only the last option could be classified as rape. The others would be assault of some variety (maybe), but would not fit the legal definition of rape.

And I seem to recall him mentioning that elsewhere, though damned if I can remember where right now.

crazylegs

07-17-2008, 09:01 PM

So, from a legal aspect; what would be the charge for a woman who drugged a man and inserted a vibrator into his anus? Or sat astride his face forcing him to orally pleasure her? Or gave him drugs to bring on an erection and had sex with him? Just curious.

This I don't know, I'm not fully read up on sexual assault laws (that's what CID do day in day out) and have a basic knowledge, I *can* find out but it will take me a few days (I don't have access to the database from home)

Greenday

07-17-2008, 09:02 PM

Actually, Greenday, re-read what crazylegs wrote.

Doh, wrong country...

powerboy

07-17-2008, 09:17 PM

I do believe that female on male rape is possible. It is sad that males get laughed at, when they report that were raped.

BlaqueKatt

07-17-2008, 09:34 PM

So, from a legal aspect; what would be the charge for a woman who drugged a man and inserted a vibrator into his anus? Or sat astride his face forcing him to orally pleasure her? Or gave him drugs to bring on an erection and had sex with him? Just curious.

Well it used to be covered under sodomy laws, I'm guessing a lesser degree sexual assault?

Lace Neil Singer

07-17-2008, 10:51 PM

This I don't know, I'm not fully read up on sexual assault laws (that's what CID do day in day out) and have a basic knowledge, I *can* find out but it will take me a few days (I don't have access to the database from home)

Okies. I'll be happy to wait.

I would be guessing it's a lesser degree, which seems pretty unfair as that kind of assault would be just as traumatising to a victim as generic rape.

Also, a lot of guys would instantly think, "Lucky bastard" at the second and third. -__- In other words, not taking it seriously.

Sylvia727

07-18-2008, 01:40 PM

Many people still think of rape as physical hurt instead of control. He held me down, he forced himself into me, he twisted my arms and pulled my hair. Women don't usually overpower men. Since rape is about control, they tend to seek nonphysical means of control- just as damaging, but harder to see. I think it's simply the visuals- it's easy to see how forcing a penis into a vagina is rape. The stabbing/screwing metaphor of penetration. It's harder for some people to understand how it hurts the man to be forced into vaginal sex. After all, his body isn't really being hurt, is it? He gets aroused and ejaculated, so he must have had an orgasm, so he must have enjoyed himself, right? (Paraphrasing ignorant minds, here; I don't think like this.)

Some people honestly believe that if a guy gets physically aroused, then obviously he was mentally aroused as well. Some others, I suspect many others, have the subconscious assumption that rape is more okay for a guy than a gal. Since all men want sex all the time, it isn't as traumatizing for him as it is for her.

Also, some people dismiss the possibility of female-on-male rape as nonsense. Since a "real" man can't possibly be outwrestled by a li'l woman and/or he should "suck up" any minor pain inflicted by her weak self, woman-on-man rape is impossible. It's a perverted form of sexism- misogynism twisted against men. These people tend to be homophobic, though, so forced sodomy has a greater acceptance as rape in their minds.

"Where were teachers like this (http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/13/Citrus/Double_standard_blurs.shtml) when I was in school?"

Lace Neil Singer

07-18-2008, 04:43 PM

Those are the sort of people who refuse to believe that there are such things as female pedophiles.

Miss_Stress

09-12-2011, 08:34 PM

Okies. I'll be happy to wait.

I would be guessing it's a lesser degree, which seems pretty unfair as that kind of assault would be just as traumatising to a victim as generic rape.

Also, a lot of guys would instantly think, "Lucky bastard" at the second and third. -__- In other words, not taking it seriously.

I'm jumping in late here...a woman would be charged under S2 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 with assault by penetration (the legal definition of this, if memory serves correctly, "penetration of the anus or vagina with anything, without consent.") Crazylegs is spot on when he says under UK law, a woman cannot be charged with rape due to the legal definition of it. The definition states "his penis", whereas S2 of the Act merely requires SOMETHING to penetrate...not necessarily a penis.

Pagan

09-12-2011, 11:24 PM

Second, I'm sorry if this sounds disgusting, but it still counts as rape if penetration is achieved using an instrument. For example, a woman who drugs her male victim and uses a vibrator on him. Still counts. There are also cases of young boys being raped by female pedophiles. It's true that female on male rape is woefully unreported; just like male on male. A lot of men would be ashamed to come forward and report that they'd been overpowered and humilated in that way.

Or you get cases like this (happened in 2008): http://www.krqe.com/dpp/search/Police_Sex_assaults_in_football_hazing_968153

tropicsgoddess

09-13-2011, 12:45 AM

Double standards suck, but rape is rape no matter if the rapist is a man or woman in any case. I loathe the women that do that despicable shit with trapping men into supporting them and their (man's unplanned and unwanted) baby! :pissed: They give women a bad name!!!

Kaylyn

09-13-2011, 02:19 AM

Just throwing this in, for no other reason than this thread reminded me of it. Once upon a time, I had planned for a minor subplot in my novel involving a girl raping her ex and unluckily finding herself pregnant as a result of it. I think I tossed it aside because during later revisions I felt it didn't fit. It's still a concept I'd like to explore in some way, however. I like reversing expectations like that in my writing.

Miss_Stress

09-13-2011, 06:51 AM

bara

09-18-2011, 10:28 PM

Actually, I have a memory of Fresh Prince that touched on this subject, in which Will was seduced against his will by one of his Uncle Phil's female friends.
Keeping in mind I saw this a LONG time ago, but she was in a position of authority or something like that and cornered him.

mooncat

09-25-2011, 12:02 AM

What's really interesting to me in this thread is the sudden and brilliant clarity of thought that occurs when people explore the topic of women raping men. All these questions and statements about whether he wanted it or not, isn't it humiliating or traumatizing, etc. The idea of non-consent becomes so easy to understand when we admit that men, too, can be raped. Yet there are still people in the world who don't accept the idea of non-consent where a woman is concerned. "If she was there, she must have wanted it. If she didn't fight back, she must have wanted it." And so on.

Please note - I am not accusing anyone on this thread of blaming women for being raped. This is meant as an observation of the way this topic gets people thinking. I'm very glad to see the statement that rape is wrong no matter who is raped, or by whom they are raped.

Seshat

09-25-2011, 06:28 AM

On the purely physical 'how would it be possible' side: a cock ring could be used to force an erection. It permits free flow of blood into the penis, and inhibits (doesn't prevent, but inhibits) blood flow out of it.

A definition of 'consensual sex' that I like. Instead of 'did he/she say no?', make it instead 'did he/she give an enthusiastic yes?'

By requiring the 'enthusiastic yes' for consent .. well. It kind of turns the whole issue around. Intimidating someone into not-saying-no doesn't count anymore.

Greenday

09-25-2011, 08:42 PM

A definition of 'consensual sex' that I like. Instead of 'did he/she say no?', make it instead 'did he/she give an enthusiastic yes?'

By requiring the 'enthusiastic yes' for consent .. well. It kind of turns the whole issue around. Intimidating someone into not-saying-no doesn't count anymore.

I don't like that at all. What about those times where you aren't feeling it, but have sex anyway to please your partner? That yes you give probably isn't an enthusiastic yes.

Kaylyn

09-26-2011, 02:00 AM

I don't like that at all. What about those times where you aren't feeling it, but have sex anyway to please your partner? That yes you give probably isn't an enthusiastic yes.

Totally agree. I have an extremely low sex drive, so I rarely give an enthusiastic yes when hubby asks for it, yet I don't consider myself raped.

KabeRinnaul

09-26-2011, 06:55 AM

This topic is just reminding me of a series of posts I saw on another forums years ago, which I decided to archive here (http://theuncertainareas.webs.com/lit/oth-dsfgw.html) due to just how mind-bogglingly insensitive it was.

That being said, I think rape can definitely be woman on man, and anyone who says the man must have enjoyed it eventually is putting themselves into basically the same class as those who say a woman dressed nicely is asking for it. And I would really like to see those places with really restrictive definitions of rape and sexual assault (like the ones that, through their wording, define rape only as being performed by a man) change those laws.

Lace Neil Singer

09-26-2011, 11:21 AM

I don't like that at all. What about those times where you aren't feeling it, but have sex anyway to please your partner? That yes you give probably isn't an enthusiastic yes.

I've never been in that position; if I don't feel like having sex, I say no, and mean it. My fiance loves me enough to not force the issue. I'd never want to have sex when I didn't feel like it, just for his sake and he wouldn't want me to be in that position anyway.

As I said before, men can get an erection when they're executed. Are they thinking erotic thoughts then?

Mytical

09-26-2011, 11:36 AM

Men can most definitely be raped. Not only in the statutory way (ie underage guy/older female). Despite what some think guys are not always after, thinking about, or wanting sex. I know some people have a hard time comprehending that, but it is true. There are drugs that can alter personalities, levels of consciousness, etc. Also, as mentioned it can be a physical response instead of a 'desire'.

Boozy

09-26-2011, 12:27 PM

I've never been in that position; if I don't feel like having sex, I say no, and mean it. My fiance loves me enough to not force the issue. I'd never want to have sex when I didn't feel like it, just for his sake and he wouldn't want me to be in that position anyway.

I think you and your boyfriend are blessed with extremely compatible sex drives. However often you feel like sex is obviously fine with him.

Most people find themselves in relationships where one partner wants sex more often than the other, so they compromise to make it work. It's not as if people have to say "yes" every time their partner asks. It's just that sometimes it becomes clear that one partner wants sex far more than the other partner doesn't want sex.

If I had to be "enthusiastic" every single time I said yes, I'd have had about a third less sex in my marriage than I actually have. I'm willing to bet my husband feels the same. We don't generally don't say no unless we're sick or completely exhausted. It's not always our best performance, but it makes the other person happy anyway.

PepperElf

09-27-2011, 01:53 PM

In all honesty it's not even "morning wood" as Greenday suggested, although that may be possible if you're sleeping next to someone and have a morning hard on.

Women can rape men in several ways.

1) Some women CAN physically overpower the man ... i.e. a large or strong woman and a smaller man

2) A man who's unconscious or physically unable to shove her off. say, a patient in a hospital for example. Or a man who's paralyzed

3) Someone who cannot legally say "yes" due to age or mental state. I.e. a child or someone who's severely mentally handicapped... cos even if they do say yes it doesn't count cos they lack the capacity to decide for themselves

4) Men who are afraid of hurting her.
This is the big one really. many men are afraid that if they fight back they'll really hurt her, or they believe that men should never hit women.... OR they'll get arrested for hitting her.

That's also why there are male victims of domestic violence. They feel they shouldn't defend themselves because they'll hurt her... or because they'll be the ones who get arrested for "spouse beating"