Wherein I dare to be unpopular!

[Amethyst Hunter]

I am one of the few people on the planet who won't be seeing the new Batman movie. I tend to avoid things that are popularly raved over, because in my experience I've never liked them, and life is too short to waste it sitting through crappy movies IMO (Been there and done that too many times to count; God how I wish I could get back my 99 or so minutes I spent obtaining a severe migraine from the Blair Witch because I was dumb enough to fall for the hype. Most un-scariest movie ever). Besides, I never liked Batman (or any of those other popular 'icons' like Superman or Star Wars, for that matter) anyway. And as far as I'm concerned, the only 'true' Joker is Jack Nicholson's. He'd eat Heath Ledger for breakfast. (Ditto Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne versus the flavor-of-the-month's Batman.)

[Sylvia727]

I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I plan to. I see the old icons as more of an archetype than a character, so it doesn't bother me when someone else tries to copy the original's success and fails artistically.

I know what you mean about hype aversion, though. I still haven't seen some classic movies because I know they'll fall short of the expections that have been communally built up. I think the lower your expectations when you go in, the more they're raised and the better you think of the movie. So even if it's a great movie, if you were expecting an awesome move, your main impression will be the fall, not the greatness.

[Rapscallion]

I'll have you know that the only true Joker was Cesar Romero!

I have to admit that I have avoided the Harry Potter books on the grounds of hype aversion. They're apparently good - millions of copies and thousands of fan sites attest to this. This new Batman? I'll probably get around to seeing it when the huge crushes at the cinemas die down, since the first of this new run was pretty good - it's a better retelling of the original, more realistic.

Superman - never really cared for that mythos. "I'm invulnerable unless Kryptonite is involved, and wow look at all the Kryptonite around here! All these crooks can get their hands on it easily."

Rapscallion

[anriana]

For movies, I don't go by hype, I go by http://www.rottentomatoes.com/ Anything over 90% is pretty much going to be a good movie, anything 50%-90% has potential, and anything under 50% should be avoided unless you want to mock it.

For someone who doesn't like Batman you seem to care quite a bit about your favorite actors.

[Greenday]

I heard Heath Ledger did a crapload better than any previous actor for the Joker. I'm dieing to see this movie. Batmin Begins was ridiculously good. And this one looks a lot better.

Superman is just a lame character. Same reasons as Raps. What good is a superhero if he can't be beaten? A mineral that practically can't be found is his ONLY weakness? How boring.

[Boozy]

I have to admit that I have avoided the Harry Potter books on the grounds of hype aversion.

I avoided those books for the longest time, too. Just to be ornery.

Finally, I broke down and gave them a shot. I got halfway through the third book and gave up. They're fun, and I can see the appeal, but they're definitely for kids. I need something meatier and more mature.

I look forward to reading them to my children some day.

As far as the Batman movie goes, my husband made a good point: You can't trust the reviews as far as Heath Ledger's portrayal of Joker goes. Who's going to be the asshole who pans his final performance? No one, that's who.

[Slytovhand]

AH - I think I love you...well, maybe like a little bit and start from there :p -

And as far as I'm concerned, the only 'true' Joker is Jack Nicholson's. He'd eat Heath Ledger for breakfast. (Ditto Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne versus the flavor-of-the-month's Batman.)

I was talking about this with my co-worker last night (about Bats - not Joker). Keaton did a great job, especially since his normal genre is comedy. He did a great straight player. Jack Nicholson... yeah... Like someone's gonna be better than him??? (ok.. bypass the scripting element...)


Greenday ... What good is a superhero if he can't be beaten?

Well - other than the obvious??????

(although, I too profess a certain...boredom... with the Supes... and the other obvious silliness of it all)

[Greenday]

I just find it boring to see a superhero that can never be beaten. It's really lame. Batman is just a regular guy who did a crapload of weight lifting and training.

[Slytovhand]

I just find it boring to see a superhero that can never be beaten. It's really lame. Batman is just a regular guy who did a crapload of weight lifting and training.

So... would that mean that in a way, you're only problem with Clark Kent's alter ego is that he doesn't go by the name Boringman?? :p

What actually surprises me about him is that with all of his superpowers, and his virtual invulnerability (other than that rare kryptonite, which any 2-bit mugger can find just lying around anywhere...), is that somehow they can still manage to pile up decades and decades of material... what the...?????

[IDrinkaRum]

I prefer the Original Superman, George Reeves. So there. :p (And yes, I love the old Black & White shows of the Original Superman show).

I'm thinking of waiting until the new Batman movie comes out on DVD to see it - not sure yet though.

And no matter who else plays Batman, Adam West is the only one who can pull off those tights! :D

[BlaqueKatt]

Jack Nicholson... yeah... Like someone's gonna be better than him???


Actually Heath Ledger played Joker straight out of his original appearance from the comic book-psychotic and bloodthirsty(he kills around 20 people-including burning one to death)-Jack Nicholson's Joker was from the tamed down version in later years or the tv show(and from what I remember didn't kill anyone).(they had Heath read "the killing Joke" which is where Joker paralyzes Barbra Gordon(batgirl-the commisner Gordon's daughter-{that joker also killed Robin} by shooting her in the spine.) Director Chris Nolen has brought elements from the comic book* into the movie while Tim Burton just redid the TV show version. Heath's Joker routinely kills off his own henchmen, and burns money he extorted from the crime families, he took half their combined money and then burned it saying "All I need is dynamite and bullets, and those, thankfully are very cheap"

Heath Ledger was a character/method actor, and the following is a quote on him playing the Joker:

" I’m not going for the same thing he went for. That would be stupid. It is also two very different directors with different styles. Tim Burton did a more fantastical kind of thing and Chris Nolan is doing nitty gritty handheld realism. I love what [Jack] did and that is part of why I want to do that role. I remember seeing it and thinking how much fun it would be to put on that mask and attempt to do something along those lines. But it would obviously be murder if I tried to imitate what he did."

*Ra's al Ghul
Lucius Fox
the various crime families

[Slytovhand]

I'm intending to go see it on the big screen either later today, or tomorrow... and by big screen, I mean the BIG screen...Imax type. :D

When I think of a Joker, I think of a psycho like a Jack - but the script didn't allow for him to do it the way he truly could have (such as in a darker version...). Let's face it, even when he's not acting he'd be in character (remember that mugshot of him when drunk?? )

Oh - although it was 'darker', I was totally unimpressed with the actual story line of B Returns...but that's just me (and a couple of others...).

[AFPheonix]

I don't know that I'll see it in theaters, but we'll probably pick it up when it comes out on dvd. Won't have to deal with stupid kids kicking the seats and sticky floors that way.

[Amethyst Hunter]

For someone who doesn't like Batman you seem to care quite a bit about your favorite actors.

Actually, I don't have *any* 'favorite' actors. There are ones whose performances I tend to like, but let's face it: they're actors. As a general rule, they're one of the most fucked-up groups of people you'll ever see. ;)

I'm not saying that Ledger is a shitty actor. From what little I saw of him, he was decent and could well have become another big name if he hadn't died. It's like what Boozy said, who wants to be the O NOES HEATH HATER! by giving his last film a shoddy review (whether or not it deserves it). I'm sorry that he died the way he did, but he wasn't a god, he was human. I think that's what bothers me the most about all the hype. "Let's pay our respects to him by drooling all over his final movie!" It's a little late to pay respects now, I'd say (and if he hadn't died, I daresay there'd be a couple of reviewers out there who'd have ripped his performance to shreds even if it was any good - that's Hollywood for ya, sadly).

I watched the first Batman movie when it came out on video, because someone in our family had rented it and although as I said I'm not a Batman fan I liked the way Keaton and Nicholson played their respective characters. (Keaton at least didn't overdo the OHHH ANGST! of his character - too much drama and I stop caring about whether your character lives, dies or pukes mushrooms) The other Batman movies (up to that fiasco called B&R, that is) I only watched out of sheer boredom if they happened to be on local cable and there was nothing better to see. :p Kilmer sucked and I got the impression that Clooney was only doing it for the money (which he probably was, and figuring the salaries of the rest of that cast, that's probably the only reason they signed on as well!).

Catwoman was a good 'villain', and though I think that Michelle Pfeiffer's had way more teeth than Halle Berry, Berry still did a good job with her take on the character (though the movie itself wasn't all that great either).

All the other ones sucked ass though. I was actually hoping that Tommy Lee Jones's Two-Face would blow Jim Carrey away, but alas, it was not to be. :p

AH - I think I love you...well, maybe like a little bit and start from there

:D Hey, everybody has to start somewhere. XD

[miyon]

I am one of the few (Ditto Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne versus the flavor-of-the-month's Batman.)

I havent seen it yet, going tomorrow I think. But about your flavor of the month Batman, Christian Bale is an amazing actor. Ledger is getting all the hype about is he the best joker ever etc. But Bale is the best batman mainly because just about all of Bale's role he is amazing.

These are some of the highlights of his acting.

Equilibrium
Empire of the Sun
Velvet Goldmine
Reign of Fire
The Machinist

[Bloodsoul]

I recall a thread over at one of GameFAQs secret boards about Batman VS Superman, saying that Superman was actually the more "human" and "relatable" of the two (using his reaction of his foster father's death as evidence). Just 'cause Supes is invincible doesn't mean he can save everyone. That reminds me, I need to check out "Death of Superman" at some point.

As for Jokers, my favourite's Mark Hamill, but that's 'cause I grew up on the old "Adventures of Superman/Batman: The Animated Series" cartoons. :D

[Slytovhand]

Sucks to be me... I didn't see it this week.... damn! It got booked out and all.

I've got to agree on the whole "let's base a review on sympathy rather than actual ability" crap (not that I know how he did, though I heard Heath did a great job...but that mentality itself). Makes you sort of wonder what it actually means to be a credible film critic!

Bale as Batman...hmmm - I'm still not convinced! Maybe he's portraying a particular version. As I think I mentioned - Batman Returns seriously didn't do much for me at all...somnehow it just didn't seem real to me (as sort of weird as it sounds!)

Keaton, to me, played a 'real' Batman... given all the psychological stuff and all - but without pushing it too much.. it was there as a basic fact of life for him - and then he just got up and dealt with it (and bashed up a stack of people :p.. that'd be the anger after the grief, denial and depression stages :p)

Clooney...phoney!


And I think Superman wants to be more human than most other humans - to stand out and try to make an example to inspire people. Bats knows the dark side is in all of us, and tries to channel that in a more positive way - and doesn't want to be a hero, but doesn't want the world to fall into the pit of darkness and despair that the baddies want it to be.... ( /psych 101 :p)

[AFPheonix]

I lied, we went and saw it.

Wow! It was much better than Batman Begins. Ledger makes the Joker seem to come from plausible origins, which makes him that much more scary. He isn't cartoony at all like Nicholson's Joker was.
It's just sheer mental illness bound up in an evil package that scares the everloving crap out of you.

[Slytovhand]

Yay me... I finally saw it!!

Well - one thing I can definitely say - Ledger put in a performance unlike any other I've seen him do! And it was quite believable...which in my books says 'good acting'!

Though... for me, it was hard not to look at what he was doing and think how Jack would have been doing it :p (I saw Get Smart just before it, and was doing the same thing... comparing!)

[AFPheonix]

I didn't really compare them, since they played such different versions of Joker. Nicholson's was a grittier version of Cesar Romero's Joker from the tv series, and Ledger's was a Joker that you'd expect to come out of a schizophrenic ward.

I really don't think Burton's Batman or these newer ones from Nolan are better or worse than the other, because they're really exploring different facets of the same universe. They're pretty much apples and oranges in my opinion, and it's ok to like both.
I do declare open season on Kilmer's and Clooney's turns in the suit, though. Those movies just plain sucked.

[BlaqueKatt]

Ledger makes the Joker seem to come from plausible origins, which makes him that much more scary. He isn't cartoony at all like Nicholson's Joker was.
It's just sheer mental illness bound up in an evil package that scares the everloving crap out of you.


Is this where I get to say "I told you so"? :p

[CancelMyService]

I loved Batman Begins, but after someone on another board I frequent pointed out that Bale's Batman voice sounds like Assy McGee, that's all I can think of now.

The 90s Batman movies (with the possible exception of the first one) were pretty much over the top and campy, like the 60s TV show with a multi million dollar budget. The statement that Jack Nicholson's version of the Joker was just his take on Cesar Romero's version seems spot on to me. The new series of movies is a more realistic approach in the sense of "what if these psychos were all real people, what would they be like".

I'm also of the opinion that the B:TAS is one of the best shows ever in terms of writing. If Nolan ever uses Mr. Freeze as a villain and bases it on the episode "Heart of Ice", it would be the one thing that could top Ledger's Joker. The biggest test of this new franchise will be if they can keep the bad guys from getting too over the top cartoony. They seemed close to getting there with Two-Face, but I don't think there's really any way to avoid that with his character. The Riddler would be a good one to fill the "psycho crazy enemy" role since obviously can't bring the Joker back, but they'd have to wait a few movies before bringing him in since *everyone* would compare whoever played him to Ledger.

[AFPheonix]

Is this where I get to say "I told you so"? :p

What doesn't kill you makes you......stranger.....

Eesh, still gives me chills thinking about it.

Riddler could be interesting, but not if he's played the way he was in the old tv series. What would be really fascinating is if they had Jim Carrey reprise the role, but have the part written and acted in a way concurrent to Nolan's universe.
Otherwise Crispin Glover would be a neat actor to plug in there.
If they had him as kind of a super hacker or something like that, taking over the message boards in downtown, stuff like that. Nothing as preposterous as polaris missiles exploding and writing a riddle in the sky like which nationality is always in a hurry.
(I do love West's Batman though, not many movies make me laugh over and over again like that one can).

The makeup for Two-Face was incredible. It was hard to look at, it was so gruesome. Much better than the makeup on Tommy Lee Jones in Batman Forever. I think he's coming back for the next movie, isn't he?

[CancelMyService]

Well the way the movie ended made you think the Joker would be coming back, but since that's not happening it seems Two-Face is going to be the guy. Since they like to have 2 villians per movie, it leaves the door wide open on who the #2 slot would be.

However, I think it would be kind of weird to have Two Face be the main villian since he's probably not known by people outside of the comic book/ B:TAS fans. Most people think of someone on the Joker/Penguin/Riddler/Catwoman level as a proper antagonist to Batman. I was kind of surprised when they relaunched the franchise with two of the lesser known baddies, but then since it was mainly the Batman origin story there would have been little sense wasting a A level villan there. I'd like to see them throw in someone like Rupert Thorne or maybe even someone like Clayface (that might open the door for horrible CGI though...) as the secondary villian in the next film.

[AFPheonix]

Penguin could be kind of interesting, especially since they've played the Mob aspect so hard the last 2 movies. I'd clean him up though, not make him as cartoony or as grotesque as the Batman Returns version. Just make him an extremely technological and sociopathic mob boss that comes to fill in the vacuum that the arrest and persecution of the other bosses have left.

[Slytovhand]

Actually - I was thinking some thing sort of similar... Penguin always came across to me as somewhat psychopathic... if they got rid of the 'humour' element. he falls into the category of 'believable'... whereas Mr Freeze would be pushing it a bit.

[AFPheonix]

The other good bad guy who would totally fit into this universe would be Bane. How cool would that be?

[Depot Denizen]

I saw a number of movies this weekend. Wall-E, X-Files, and Batman. Out of the three, I think I liked Wall-E the most. However, I think Batman was a well-done movie, if a bit too long.

There's some criticism about Batman's voice, with it being too rough and gritty. I thought it was fine. I mean, why on earth would you want to talk in your normal voice if your alter-ego was well-known? "Oh hey, you sound like Bruce Wayne!" :confused:

I honestly prefer the darker Batman from the two newer movies. Past Batman Returns they had just become campy and overblown to the point of a live-action cartoon. That's probably fine for most people, but I enjoy, I suppose, a more realistic representation of the Dark Knight. Not some guy running around in a speedo and Bat-nipples.

[AFPheonix]

I never got that criticism either. Especially if you are a bad guy, are you going to be more scared of a normal person voice or a ragged threatening voice jumping out of the shadows at you?

[Mistress Of Foxes]

Generally, when I go see a movie (or buy a game or things like that) it's because the trailer caught my attention and/or I think it might be interesting... Or it's been recommended to me by friends that know the things I like.

I went to see the new Batman movie because I like Batman, and the Joker has always been one of my favorite villians, so I was interested in seeing how the new movie would tackle it. I get that people have different opinions about the movie, and that's fine. But in my opinion, Ledger did a damn good job at playing a deranged psychotic criminal.

I didn't go see it because it was hyped, nor because it was Ledger's last movie (dear Loki, I wanted to strangle the girl at the movie that almost started crying whenever he got on screen.... Get a life!), but because I thought it had the potential to be good, and I liked it.

Edited to add (didn't want to post an entirely new post just for this): Also, in my opinion, avoiding something just because it's hyped is just as bad as deciding to do/see/hear/lick something because it's hyped. I'm skeptic towards things that have been seriously hyped, but I still make my own decision about whether or not it interests me. That's what sets me free from the hype, and I get to make my own opinions.

I went to see the Batman movie, like I said, because I like Batman, not because it was hyped. A similar hype that I'm going against is the hype that says that if you're a Batman fan, you have to hate Batman & Robin. Honestly, I don't. It's cliche and worth a lot of face palms, but I see it as a parody, and that means I can enjoy it as such. I like it because it's brain dead comedy I can watch when I don't want to think too much.

You don't get "unpopular" and "independent from the hype" by going against the hype and doing the opposite... You do it by completely ignoring the hype, IMHO.

[Gawdzillers]

I dare to be unpopular by being popular.
For example, I love rap. I think a lot of the songs are very catchy and have great hooks and lyrics. Offensive? Maybe to some, but I sure don't mind hearing about lots of money and promiscuous sex.

[anriana]

As they killed off the only woman with a major role, I will be very sad if they don't include Poison Ivy or Catwoman.

[Slytovhand]

They could bring back Batgirl :p