Breastfeeding

[The Shadow]

There's a thread over at CS about breastfeeding and as one poster noted, it's probably only a matter of time before it gets locked and told to take it here...so I will.

I'll reiterate here what I said there...I have no problem with public breastfeeding, except when it's done in a way that's disrespectful of other people's personal space and sense of modesty. A good example of this would be the woman I saw breastfeeding on a bus the other day, in a seat directly across from me -- no nursing blanket or any attempt to cover up whatsoever. It would have been impossible not to look at her without a deliberate effort to look somewhere else untill she had finished, which I had to do with conscious and sustained effort, so I wouldn't be thought rude. :rolleyes:

How do the rest of you feel about it?

[Norton]

I admit, watching a woman breastfeed makes me feel uncomfortable, and it has nothing to do with modesty.

The thing is, I've only ever had the mouths of full-grown men on my own breasts, and the thought of a baby sucking on them instead just creeps me the fuck out.

Yes, it's natural and healthy for the baby and not sexual at all, but as someone who has no desire for children, it's still kinda freaky for me to think about.

However, I still think women shouldn't be restricted as to where they can breastfeed. Just because it weirds-out people like me, or offends other's sense of modesty, doesn't mean that we should tell mothers where to feed their child. Don't like it? Don't do it, and don't watch others do it. No need to banish mothers to the restrooms.

In cases like The Shadow's bus experience, well... I'd just chalk that up to one of life's annoyances. Yeah, it may not be pleasant, but it's no traumatic experience either. Not all discomforts can be avoided. *shrug*

[AFPheonix]

It's a boob. I really don't have a problem with them as the owner of two myself.

I can't comprehend why people have such shit-fits over the human body. It's not like we don't all have nearly identical parts ourselves, why is it such a surprise when we see one slightly exposed in public?

[Lace Neil Singer]

The fact is, in the Western world, breasts are sexual. No, that's not their biological use, but it's a fact that they are. Otherwise, men's fap mags wouldn't have bare breasts in them, and wouldn't sell so well. After all, the Chinese used to sexualise feet, which are biologically used for walking on, not for sex. There's no point in denying this, and this is why in the Western world, people get so uncomfortable when breasts are bared.

There is no need to flash unsuspecting people when you feed your baby. As I said in the other thread, I saw this girl feeding her baby with the baby tucked inside her loose, flowing shirt. I happened to pass close enough to see; to the average passerby, the girl would just be giving her baby a skin to skin cuddle. It's just about being respectful to other human beings. After all, legally, I'm allowed to grope my boyf as long as we keep our clothes on; however, I don't. I keep that for private. XD

I understand that sometimes a baby needs to be fed, but I'm sure that most women would prefer to do so in a quiet out of the way spot, rather than right in front of a cast of thousands. And whipping your boobs out and challenging people not to stare just reminds me of the reference to "the elephant in the corner". I doubt that the majority of breast feeding mothers do that; sadly, the minority that do are just wrecking things for the respectful majority.

[The Shadow]

I can't comprehend why people have such shit-fits over the human body. It's not like we don't all have nearly identical parts ourselves, why is it such a surprise when we see one slightly exposed in public?

The problem is if someone gets caught looking, they're the ones thought of as rude or immature (especially guys) even though it's very difficult or even impossible not to in some situations -- like the experience I described for example.

IMO, anyone who chooses to expose themselves in public has no right to complain when people around you look. It's not fair to tell someone they have issues of seeing a normally covered part of a person's anatomy in public, and then turn around and complain they don't like being looked at.

You can't have it both ways.

[Skoobeedu]

I don't have a problem with breastfeeding in public, as a general rule. I nursed my son, but I did it in a way that you couldn't even tell that I was doing it. I remember sitting in Applebee's eating with one hand and nursing with the baby in my other and no one knew. But that's because I covered up. Personally, I don't want my boob hanging out all over the place.

On the other hand, I personally know people who try to expose themselves as much as possible. One did it to try to embarass her husband and anyone who was with them. Others I know make it their personal crusade to start an argument about the issue and so make a concerted effort to "expose" as much as they want, just daring someone to say something so that they can cry that their rights are being trampled on. There is no reason a baby needs to eat in a bathroom, but personally I think there's no reason that anyone should be able to see anything when nursing. It can be done discreetly. Some people just like to start an argument about it, in my experience.

[The Shadow]

And whipping your boobs out and challenging people not to stare just reminds me of the reference to "the elephant in the corner".

That's exactly the point I was trying to make...thank you!

And you don't even have to be staring to get dirty looks...sometimes merely *glancing*is enough to annoy them. :rolleyes:

[Greenday]

It's one thing to feed your kid in public, but it's another just to let your boobs hang there for everyone to see but expect no one to look. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Life is unfair. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a little modest about it and your kid sure as hell won't care whether he's under a shirt or being hidden away as long as he's getting fed.

[Devilboy]

I would still have to agree with the breast pump idea.
When you're at home, feed directly from the breast all you want.
If you are going to be in public, use the pump before you leave the house.
Make sure that you always have a few bottles on hand.
It's still milk from your breasts, not formula or cow's milk... and you don't have to worry about any possibility of awkwardness.

That is exactly what my sister did with both my nephew and my niece.

[AFPheonix]

The problem is if someone gets caught looking, they're the ones thought of as rude or immature (especially guys) even though it's very difficult or even impossible not to in some situations -- like the experience I described for example.

IMO, anyone who chooses to expose themselves in public has no right to complain when people around you look. It's not fair to tell someone they have issues of seeing a normally covered part of a person's anatomy in public, and then turn around and complain they don't like being looked at.

You can't have it both ways.

But that's quite a different problem than the one that was presented in the OP. In your example, the person breast-feeding has the problem. In the OP, it is the person observing that has the problem. If someone feels comfortable to have their breasts exposed, then fine. But at some point, we as a culture really need to get over being so prudish.

[Sylvia727]

When you're at home, feed directly from the breast all you want.
If you are going to be in public, use the pump before you leave the house.


Firstly, those can hurt. I know my mom had trouble with hers, comfort wise. Another friend breastfed her baby for the mother-child bonding, which pumps denied. I can't watch anyone pump without being reminded of a cow factory, with cattle lined up on conveyor belts. Moooo. I can certainly see why a mother might choose not to use one.

Secondly, why should the mother have to bother with all of that? She's not hurting anyone. Discretion is simple enough to achieve with a blankie or a loose jacket. I see mothers breastfeeding in restaurants or shopping malls frequently. Most of them cover up, and for the ones that don't, there isn't that much visible anyway. The baby's head blocks sight of the areola, and there's generally less skin exposed than the average bikini. I could see a case being made that it would ruin the atmosphere of an expensive lounge, but anyone that's kid-friendly in the first place shouldn't be formal for breastfeeding.

Of course, any woman who bares skin loses the right be offended when passerby look at her. That's not giving them license to be rude or creepy about it. Some people do stare, and make the woman uncomfortable. If you wouldn't do it to a woman in a low cut top, don't do it to a breastfeeding mother.

[Gilgamesh]

As I said on the original thread, breastfeeding in public doesn't bother me, but it's obvious that other people can feel very differently. I think the act is natural (not that anyone is denying it), but nowadays breasts are often seen as mainly sexual (even more so in the US than here, I believe). It might be easiest for me to make a little list:

1. It's natural, but people will look - not necessarily stare - and if you're not perfectly comfortable with it, cover up.

2. Many people are bothered even by the chance of seeing a nipple in public. Some might complain. Accept it.

3. Don't "abuse" the right to breastfeed in public. It's not a statement, it's food. Don't make it harder for other mothers to feed their babies.

4. The baby might prefer having a quiet meal, so feeding in public shouldn't be the first option. again, not a statement.

5. Whipping out your breasts in public and getting belligerent when others notice it? You, "lady", are a fucking moron. See 1 & 2.

[BlaqueKatt]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a little modest about it and your kid sure as hell won't care whether he's under a shirt or being hidden away as long as he's getting fed.


actually my son would object to being covered by anything-he'd either flip it off or scream-loudly-you want to eat your dinner under a blanket? It's hot for one thing, and my son HAD to have eye contact. I know a lot of women that had this same problem.

I would still have to agree with the breast pump idea.
When you're at home, feed directly from the breast all you want.
If you are going to be in public, use the pump before you leave the house.
Make sure that you always have a few bottles on hand.


And what about people like me, not all women CAN pump-I actually pumped for two hours straight(hospital grade pump)-got one ounce, my son was allergic to anything other than breast milk I suppose I should've just stayed home. Rather than allow someone to *gasp* see a breast being used for it's INTENDED purpose :rolleyes: And why should I HAVE to buy bottles-and wash them when the milk supply comes with it's own handy dispenser that goes wherever I do? Just because it worked for your sister does NOT mean all women are like your sister there are women(myself included-I pumped one side while nursing my son on the other as my lactation consultant suggested-didn't work) who cannot "let down*" for a pump AT ALL.

Not to mention some babies will NOT take bottles, From breastfeeding myths (http://www.breastfeeding.com/all_about/all_about_myths.html)(# 9 which talks about nipple confusion) -"A baby who has had only the breast for 3 or 4 months is unlikely to take the bottle."

When my son had to have an upper GI x-ray they tried putting the barium in a bottle(he was 9 months old)-he refused, I poured it into a regular cup and he did just fine.

*"Let Down" is the term used for the body releasing the milk to flow

[AdminAssistant]

This has to be a situation of mutual respect. I respect the fact that a mother has to feed her child, she respects the fact that I may not wish to witness said event by doing this as discreetly as possible. I personally find it a bit...gross.

A related topic that bothers me is when women who breast-feed attack/berate/yell at/insult women who bottle-feed/formula-feed. My sister tried breast feeding. She tried using a pump when she went back to work. She wasn't making enough milk to feed her son. She switched to formula. I don't think she got too many snarky comments, but there is a definite bias against women who don't breast-feed. It's up to the mother.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I've seen that in other forums. One woman went as far as to say that any mother who chooses formula over breast is guilty of child abuse. *major eye roll* My mum could not breast feed beyond first milk. Myself and all my brothers were raised on formula, and we're all healthy. My niece gets both, cuz get this; my sister in law and brother share feeding duties and breast pumps are yuck. XD

As for "my baby doesn't like being covered up/wants eye contact" then the answer is simple; don't feed in public. Try and fit your life around your baby, not the other way round. Also, it seems to me that a baby who makes a fuss about being fed under cover has been allowed to act that way; if you only fed him under cover, he'd soon stop making the fuss. Just like not allowing a toddler to shriek loudly in a supermarket. The fact is, we all have to share this world together, and the word is compromise.

3. Don't "abuse" the right to breastfeed in public. It's not a statement, it's food. Don't make it harder for other mothers to feed their babies.
This. By insisting on flashing the public, making a giant fuss or insisting that you have the right to do it everywhere regardless of what other people might think, you are not helping the cause, you are hindering it. Just like the feminists who vilify men are not helping the feminist cause.

[Boozy]

Breastfeeding in public, children at restaurants and movies, mother-and-child parking spots...are all part of a bigger debate. There are those who see babies and children as members of the human race with rights attached, and those that see them as slightly less worthy of those rights than those who have reached adulthood.

Even well-behaved children with great parents can be loud and messy sometimes. I'm disturbed by the sheer lack of tolerance for them these days. They aren't "spawn", "crotch droppings" or any other nasty term I've read on CS. They are human beings, and deserving of respect.

As for "my baby doesn't like being covered up/wants eye contact" then the answer is simple; don't feed in public. Try and fit your life around your baby, not the other way round.

Essentially restricting a breast-fed child to their homes. This is short-sighted. Children's brains develop by exploring the world around them. A society that raises children with a strict "never seen and never heard" mentality is handicapping that generation for life.

Remember - one day this generation will be growing our food, building our houses, treating our illnesses, and changing our diapers in nursing homes.

The fact is, we all have to share this world together, and the word is compromise.

And what is the compromise you'd be willing to make on your part? You're quick to sentence a baby to house arrest, but refuse to simply avert your eyes when you see something that offends you? Is this a fair compromise?

[Greenday]

A world based on seniority? Hm, interesting. I still say there are times and places where everyone else takes precedence over one kid.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Boozy, don't put words into my mouth that I never said. I don't believe I ever said that all children should stay home. *eye roll* But part of compromise is that you cover up when feeding your child, and don't try and offend people "just cuz you can." Please actually read my posts; I already said that it doesn't bother me, cept when someone is deliberately being disrespectful.

It wouldn't take that long to find a bench in a mall or a quiet corner to feed your child, or to place the child inside your shirt or put a blanket over the top rather than just tearing your shirt open.

One thing; why single out my post when I was agreeing with another person's point of view and have already said that I am fine with it as long as respect is going both ways? I find it a bit upsetting to be singled out and attacked in this way when I'm hardly the only, or even the first person, to express this point of view. :(

[BlaqueKatt]

As for "my baby doesn't like being covered up/wants eye contact" then the answer is simple; don't feed in public. Try and fit your life around your baby, not the other way round. Also, it seems to me that a baby who makes a fuss about being fed under cover has been allowed to act that way; if you only fed him under cover, he'd soon stop making the fuss.


yes because you can obviously "train" an autistic 3 month old :rolleyes:

a misbehaving toddler can understand right/wrong/consequences an infant cannot-some days he wanted to nurse every 15 minutes sometimes(growth spurts happen to increase the need for milk* as does impending illness) he would go two hours-at the time where I lived it was a 90 minute car trip to get to the grocery store-so yes I would've been under "house arrest"-as an aside during the time he nursed I only ever had two people say anything-both commented on how beautiful the sight of a mother and child were-as I was normally looking at my son I didn't notice if anyone stared.

Try and fit your life around your baby, not the other way round.

Just to break this out-does a bottlefeeding mom have to do this as well or just one who choses to breastfeed? Because I would not want to think you would discriminate against a woman's right to feed her child in the manner she chooses,or may be medically necessary. And for the record my baby's head was larger than my breast, so in order to see anything you would've had to be standing over my shoulder looking down-and quite in my personal space-I showed less boob breastfeeding than I do in a tank top :rolleyes:

And all states have laws protecting breastfeeding in public as a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT-sorry take it up with the lawmakers.

Also In Africa a bottlefeeding mother is shunned to the back, why? Only women with HIV/AIDS formula feed-think about that perspective-a developing country has no issue whatsoever with breastfeeding, but shuns bottefeeding. But We're "civalized"?

I know someone who is uncomfortable seeing people in wheelchairs-should we tell all of them they can't leave the house as someone might see them and be uncomfortable? What about people with scars/deformities? Oh Only breastfeeding mothers-ok then we'll just regale an entire group to second-class citizens for daring to feed their child in public.

Only in America is this even an issue-due to the fact that women are still seen as less than their male counterparts. Males can walk around topless on a beach(I've seen men with larger breasts than mine), yet women get arrested and fined. Europe and some other areas it's perfectly acceptable for women to be topless, those countries also have no issue with women breastfeeding in public, and the breastfeeding rates are higher.

the US average (http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/data/report_card2.htm) for exclusive breastfeeding at age 3 months(remember the American association of pediatricians recommends exclusive breastfeeding to age 6 months with the beginning of adding solids at that time, and continuing for a year-the World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding for at least two years) is 31.5 %, Rawanda's is 90% (http://www.llli.org//cbi/bfstats03.html)-these countries also do not allow direct marketing of artificial infant milk. The World Health Organization estimates 1.5 million infants die each year from not being breastfed-that's one every 30 seconds from IFBAN (http://www.ibfan.org/site2005/Pages/article.php?art_id=23&iui=1)

The International Code of Marketing of Breast milk Substitutes was adopted by the World Health Assembly in 1981. The Assembly is the policy-setting body of the World Health Organization.

Baby food companies may not:

• Give free supplies of baby milk to hospitals;

• Promote their products to the public;

• Use baby pictures or other idealizing picture or text on their baby milk and bottle and teat labels;

• Give gifts to mothers or health workers;

• Give free samples to parents;

• Seek direct or indirect contact with pregnant women or mothers of children up to three years of age;

• Promote baby foods or drinks for babies under 6 months old;

Labels must be in a language understood by the mother and must include a prominent health warning.

Breastfed babies need no other food or drink for about the first 6 months of life. They also have reduced risk of diabetes, pneumonia, ear infections, and some cancers. Studies show that women who breastfeed may have a lower risk of breast and ovarian cancers and that their babies are less likely to die of cot death(SIDS) or suffer from allergies or obesity in later life.

The CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/data/NIS_data/index.htm) is currently finding out that breast milk substitutes are contributing highly to childhood obesity, and childhood diabetes, and that lower socio-economic groups have much lower breastfeeding rates(breast milk substitutes are not cheap-further impoverishing the families.

Some More information on breast milk substitutes (http://www.askdrsears.com/html/0/T000100.asp)-straight fact-based information not from the manufacturer with a nutritional breakdown comparing the popular brands.

[Saydrah]

Okay, personally I don't see why this has to be a huge human rights debate. One should be considerate about exposing breasts in public, and one should be considerate about a baby's need to breastfeed when hungry. It might be common decency before whipping out an uncovered breast on a crowded bus to give a fair warning to your neighbor, like, "I need to breastfeed my infant, and he won't eat under a nursing blanket. I need to feed him now before he starts fussing and crying."

And if we're going into whether or not children have the same rights as adults, on public buses in my city, adults are not allowed to eat. So, if we want children to have all the exact same rights, then they should also be required to follow the rules. Personally, I say feed the baby. I'd rather sit next to a breastfeeder than a crying infant. It makes sense to me to apply the rules flexibly depending upon age, but if we want to demand kids and babies have the EXACT SAME RIGHTS as adults, then it's not fair to go assigning them additional rights as well.

Expanding upon that, no, children do NOT have the same rights as adults. For example, the right to enter into a contractual agreement should not be extended to a child without their parents' consent. What about the right to freedom of association? Does your child have the right to refuse to associate with people of a certain race, or to refuse to go to a certain school? I say that's the family's decision, not the child's, and many things should be. The child doesn't have the right to bear arms, either, and the founding fathers certainly considered that a human right.

There's a line between allowing children the freedom of self-determination and the right to make mistakes and learn from them, versus allowing children to take control of families. Telling children what to do and that sometimes they have no choice is not violating their rights.

[Boozy]

One thing; why single out my post when I was agreeing with another person's point of view and have already said that I am fine with it as long as respect is going both ways? I find it a bit upsetting to be singled out and attacked in this way when I'm hardly the only, or even the first person, to express this point of view. :(

Lace, I chose to quote your post because I felt that you had articulately and succinctly summarized the opposing point of view. You shouldn't take that personally. This is a debate forum. You expressed an opinion I disagreed with, so I chose to take up that aspect of the debate with you.

I'm sorry that you felt singled out and upset. There was no need to take it personally or interpret my response as an attack. There are many times you've said things I've agreed with. I was arguing the point, not the person.

[IDrinkaRum]

I fit myself around my bottle-fed daughter's schedule as much as I could. I was just worried about the formula going bad before she could drink it. Or the water being bad. Or something going wrong. (But then again, I had Post Partum Depression - which wasn't noticed nor was it treated - so I had weird reactions to everything).

As long as the breast-feeding mothers don't have their boobs hanging out in public at all times, I don't care how they breast feed. Just feed the darn child when they shriek in that 'OMG! I'm starving Mommy! Feed me!' cry.

[Gilgamesh]

Europe and some other areas it's perfectly acceptable for women to be topless, those countries also have no issue with women breastfeeding in public, and the breastfeeding rates are higher.


Must address this one.

I live in Finland. Nudity is, at the moment, far less an issue than in the States. You can show bare breasts on TV, families and men and women who don't even know each other can go to sauna together (not as common as before), and there probably are nudist beaches - not to mention the impromptu ones. Walking around topless is frowned upon, though. I don't know about Germany and the Netherlands - the countries most likely to have the most relaxed attitude - but my guess is that it’s pretty much confined to beaches and red-light areas.

In addition, breastfeeding is generally accepted and considered the best possible option. Hell, one of the Members of Parliament fed her baby while in session (about ten years ago, IIRC). Yet it is considered somewhat rude to bare it all.


EDIT:

Can't remember everything. I find it really annoying that some "supermommies" have the need to make others feel inadequate if they can't (or won't) breastfeed. My mother breastfed all of us at least ten months, but she also donated the extra - because not everyone produces enough. Nowadays, with all the diseases, donating is rare, but when there's clean water around, substitutes are a good replacement.

[Xanthina]

I've breastfed, and breastfed in public. I tried very hard to be discreet. I loved places that had a mother-baby room. I refuse to nurse in a bathroom. I either would have to stand(uncomfortable) or sit on a toilet(Eew!)

My issues comes when a place says you have to go to XYZ place to nurse. I love the option, I mostlikely will use it, but you can't force me to use it. In most states it's illegal even.

As with every aspect of my life, I like to have options.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Lace, I chose to quote your post because I felt that you had articulately and succinctly summarized the opposing point of view. You shouldn't take that personally. This is a debate forum. You expressed an opinion I disagreed with, so I chose to take up that aspect of the debate with you.

I'm sorry that you felt singled out and upset. There was no need to take it personally or interpret my response as an attack. There are many times you've said things I've agreed with. I was arguing the point, not the person.

Oh, ok. Thanks for telling me this; I'm sorry if I took it personally.

as for the "Bare breasts are fine in Africa", just go back to what I said before. Breasts here are sexual, end of.

Blaquekatt, you can't throw autism into the mix when you did not mention it before. Especially since I'm autistic, in a way, myself; I have AS. Yup, properly diagnosed. In any case, we've had this debate before. If your autistc child can't cope with a situation, then don't force him into it. It sucks, but then, it also sucks for every single mother in this situation so no need to feel victimised. It also sucks for every person unwittingly exposed to bare breasts when they don't wish to see them, for whatever reason; for example, Muslims might not appreciate it due to their beliefs.

[DesignFox]

When it comes to breastfeeding, it all should come down to respect.

I respect a mother's right to do what she's got to do for her child. But at the same time, I feel it is her responsibility to have some respect for the people around her. I'm sorry, I don't need to see your breasts flopping around in my face. It makes me uncomfortable. Just be discreet, or offer a polite "heads up" to the people around you. It's not that big a deal. Do what you gotta do, but don't be in people's faces about it.

Everything comes down to respect, and I don't understand what is so hard about the concept, nowadays. :rolleyes:

[BlaqueKatt]

Blaquekatt, you can't throw autism into the mix when you did not mention it before.

I have previously mentioned that my son is autistic-we did not know until he was 2 years old-however I did not like being told that I allowed my 3 month old son to "misbehave"-an infant is not a dog you don't train them, a toddler yes an infant no. You compared my son not wanting a blanket over his head while nursing to a toddler yelling, screaming, and running roughshot in a store.

it also sucks for every single mother in this situation so no need to feel victimised.
Being told I should've stayed home by myself because I don't know when my son is going to want to eat, because I might offend someone, telling me my infant wasn't "trained" properly-no no reason to feel like a victim of an attack.

It also sucks for every person unwittingly exposed to bare breasts when they don't wish to see them, for whatever reason; for example, Muslims might not appreciate it due to their beliefs.

as I said previously you would have to be looking over my shoulder in my personal space to see anything.

If I spent my life worrying about what I did offending other people I'd have to live in a dark cave by myself somewhere-everything offends someone.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Again, you are reading things into what I said that aren't there.

1. You brought autism into this thread; how am I supposed to remember every single thing you ever say about your son? It's not my business to.

2. I never said that. Please stop twisting my words.

3. In which case, you are not the sort of person I am referring to, so please stop being so defensive.

Everything comes down to respect, and I don't understand what is so hard about the concept, nowadays.

I couldn't agree more; and I really can't understand why the concept of people not wanting to see a mother whip off her top and fling out her bare breasts is so repellent to certain people. -___-

[AFPheonix]

I couldn't agree more; and I really can't understand why the concept of people not wanting to see a mother whip off her top and fling out her bare breasts is so repellent to certain people. -___-

I have yet to see a nursing mom do that. Have you? The vast majority of the time moms pull their shirts up a bit on one side to get the job done. If a person wasn't sitting there staring, hoping for a flash of boob, they most likely wouldn't notice at all.

Seriously, to me it's a non-issue. Perhaps if more women did it, people would get more inured to seeing boobs and it would be a non-issue for more people. But then, this is the West, where Janet Jackson baring her boob for a millisecond was enough to make the news for weeks, prompting people to TiVo the moment and relive it over and over and over.....:rolleyes:

[Lace Neil Singer]

I have actually; there was a woman in the local shopping centre escorted out by security cuz she whipped her top off. Yes, she had a baby, but this is the Western world where breasts are sexual and in any case, there was no need for her to do that. She was obviously looking for trouble and using her baby as an excuse to do so.

[AFPheonix]

Ok so one attention-whore lady out of the how many all of us have ever seen breastfeeding gets to cover the entire population of breastfeeders?

[spookysonata]

I thought you'd never seen one? Like the great white?

Anyway, it's true that breasts are sexualized in this culture...but by who? Men who see them as toys, and who have never had to feed a hungry infant. Doesn't mean I have to accept or agree. When my baby is born in a few months, I'll feed him when and where he is hungry.
I WILL be as discreet as possible, but if he doesn't like to be covered by a blanket or shirt, I will absolutely not make him go hungry because random strangers *might* be offended by the fact that I am doing *something* with my (SEXUALIZED) breast. I am not looking for attention or a fight, but anyone who has a smart comment to make will get just that.

Alternatively, anyone who doesn't like it may feel free to recall their manners and look away.

And that's all I got to say about that :cool:

[Flyndaran]

I find breastfeeding in public to be disgusting.
It has nothing to do with seeing naked body parts.
It just seems on par with other all natural activities like urinating.

[Xanthina]

I find breastfeeding in public to be disgusting.
It has nothing to do with seeing naked body parts.
It just seems on par with other all natural activities like urinating.
Because peeing and eating are the same things?

Ok, fine, but I would like all people to stop masticating in public.

[The Shadow]

Anyway, it's true that breasts are sexualized in this culture...but by who? Men who see them as toys, and who have never had to feed a hungry infant.

I'm sorry but it's simply not true that only men sexualize breasts. I happen belong to a number of childfree message boards, one of the few places on the internet where women outnumber men, and the women there say pretty much the same thing - that they view breasts as sexual too. And they say they don't particularly like seeing breastfeeding women either. So it's not just "a guy thing".

[Rapscallion]

I suspect the women on a childfree message board are going to say that they find breastfeeding in public unpleasant, because the general tendency is going to be that the members don't really care for children.

I'm childfree and unlikely to change on this, but I don't really mind if women get their breasts out. I'm easily pleased.

Rapscallion

[spookysonata]

Oh, I understand breasts are sexual in this culture. I didn't say it was "a guy thing", but please: I think straight men, as a group, find them more exciting than anyone else.

The point I'm trying to make is that, just because they are sexualized, doesn't mean it's the ONLY possible use for them. Women can be hot, and also be rocket scientists. Breasts can be sexy, and also perform their necessary biological function and feed babies.

[The Shadow]

I'm childfree and unlikely to change on this, but I don't really mind if women get their breasts out.

Ditto. I've said this before and I think it's worth repeating -- I don't mind women breastfeeding in public as long as they try their best to be discreet, which most do. As another poster said, it's only the small minority who are immature and disrespectful about it that I have a problem with. And even though I'm childfree myself, I don't hate children like so many of the rest of them do. But that's a rant I'll save for another time and thread. :)

[Lace Neil Singer]

I thought you'd never seen one? Like the great white?

That was a similie. Sorry you couldn't understand that; here it is in more simple terms.

I, personally, have never seen a great whilte; however, I don't deny that they exist. That was in response to your comment that just cuz you'd never seen one of those rude mothers, that they didn't exist. I've noticed a lot of people saying, "Well, cuz I've personally never seen *insert person or happening here* then it's a strawman, blah blah blah" which is untrue.

However, I did not say that I'd never seen a rude, whip em out mother. And I NEVER once said that all breastfeeders are like that, so please get off your cross, take the wood, build a bridge, and get over it before you start attacking people just cuz you disagree with them and making yourself look as tho you are a "whip em out" mother. :rolleyes:

[spookysonata]

Lace, I'm not attacking anybody, I'm just stating my opinion. You implied you had never seen a blatantly topless woman breastfeeding or whatever, and it occured to me you were using a strawman argument to make your point. No need to attack me.

As for making myself look like a "whip em out mother" please read my posts. I addressed that. If there are people determined to take offense by the fact of what I'm doing, I cannot help that.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Sorry; I just get a bit paranoid when it seems as tho someone is trying to pick apart something I said, just to make a point. I don't use strawmen; I just don't see the point. It's like a "and birds go tweet" argument. Also, I sometimes find it hard to put a point across in the written, or typed word. X_x I wonder sometimes if I ever make sense online. -.-

[Flyndaran]

Some to many women will have orgasms while breastfeeding, and people still have the audacity to claim that breasts aren't inherently sexual?

I stand by my opinion that doing it in public is gross. But with that I state that many disgusting things are legal to do in public. Seeing breastfeeding in public doesn't harm me, so the woman's freedom should trump my feelings of ickiness.
For example two gay people kissing, or even holding hands in public, disgusts many, but as the actions harm no one, individual freedom should prevail.

[AFPheonix]

People can orgasm to many things, such as toes getting sucked on, pooping in a diaper, etc. Breasts can be sexual, but they also have a different biological purpose. Besides, sex isn't nearly as scary as some people like to make it. So what if people find breasts sexy? I find male chests and jaw lines to be sexy. Should they cover up all the time too?

[Greenday]

Should they cover up all the time too?

Sometimes they definitely should be.

[Boozy]

I stand by my opinion that doing it in public is gross. But with that I state that many disgusting things are legal to do in public. Seeing breastfeeding in public doesn't harm me, so the woman's freedom should trump my feelings of ickiness.
For example two gay people kissing, or even holding hands in public, disgusts many, but as the actions harm no one, individual freedom should prevail.

I think that's a fair and reasonable stance.

I think you're wrong to find breastfeeding in public gross, but so what? You have no intention of restricting my personal freedoms based on that opinion, so it shouldn't matter to me at all. And so it doesn't.

[Flyndaran]

I don't think that anyone can be "wrong" in what disgusts them. It's a subjective/asthetic opinion not based on objective facts.

Is it wrong for the squeamish to find earthworms, cockroaches, and fly larvae disgusting? If so, why? If not, then why not? It's opinion.

[powerboy]

Whenever I see a mother breastfeeding her child, I do not think anything of it. Will I look? Yeah. Will I stare at them? No. I happen to find womens breasts to be sexual. But I do know that they serve another purpose

[katie kaboom]

I wonder though, were women given breasts to be used as a sexual tool and it just so happened that another function of them became to feed the woman's baby or were we given breasts specifically to be able to breastfeed and the sexual part came along later?

[Sylvia727]

If you look at other mammals, you will see that their teats are strictly for feeding. The primary sexual characteristics are the reproductive organs and nothing else. Breasts are one of many secondary sexual characteristics. I suspect that breasts became an erogenous zone because of their heightened sensitivity and association with fertility.

[Flyndaran]

Other primates' breasts are small and flaccid when not pregnant or breastfeeding. Humans just happen to appear pregnant or breastfeeding even when not "with child".
Yes, women's breasts engorge somewhat at that time, but the difference is much less noticeable than any other primate.
It's just one of the many aspects of our species evolved to hide fertility.

[fireheart17]

In all honesty, in all the times I've seen women breastfeeding, they've moved their top a little to the side so bubs can get to the breast. Yes, they have expected a certain amount of staring, but with the exception of one minor incident, nobody's been arrested for it.
I've seen worse-a lady changing her kid on a bench right in front of me at work. Seeing a lady breastfeed her kid? No problem, provided the child is at an age where he/she doesn't rely entirely on milk (seeing a 4-year-old kid on breast is a bit :s) Seeing a lady change her kids nappy? Ick.
And the arresting incident I mentioned above was in the complex where I work, a lady was breastfeeding her kid-in the parenting room mind you-and was subsequently questioned by security. Australia's a bit more refined than America in terms of breastfeeding, but we still have problems with it for some reason. Not to the extent mentioned above, but still...:S

[tabbyblack13]

The thing is that some women behave like this.

www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/2278904/detail.html

[Boozy]

That's not a breastfeeding issue, that's a bad driving issue.

[tabbyblack13]

But she is using breastfeeding as an excuse for her bad driving. I don't mind breastfeeding but when you use it as an excuse to do drive with your kids head next to the airbag while talking on a cellphone. That's when it goes too far.

[AFPheonix]

It's still not a ding against breastfeeding any more than a single bad driver who happens to be female equates to all female drivers being bad.

I'm sorry that she may have had to spend more time if she stopped and fed her kid, but I think the peace of mind knowing that she wouldn't squash her kid's head like a grape against the steering wheel in the event of a crash would be worth it.

[PepperElf]

Re - breastfeeding while driving.

Screw the "public" part... There's a reason why it's freaking illegal to hold a child in the front seat while the car is in motion. If you crash you CANNOT hold on to the baby. The baby WILL go through the windshield.


And in the driver's seat?... ok maybe not the windshield... perhaps the steering wheel or air-bag will snap the kid's neck first.

so yay for the cops giving her a ticket.


and um.. breast feeding WHILE on the phone and driving?
what was she using to steer? her freaking knees?

seriously she needs to get her priorities straightened out.

if the baby is that freakin hungry... the pull the F over and feed him... you don't NEED to do it while the car's in motion.