Overseas phone support, what is the real problem?

[wanderingjoe72]

Thanks to Mastro for starting this on the regular board with this The Transfer Game (http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=29231)

I figured that as far as our company is concerned, the real objection to outsourced support reps is that they do not understand a lot of basic concepts regarding our product. It is not a matter of not being able to speak English, but the failure to understand basic financial concepts. It is the repeating of an issue multiple times so that the rep will understand what you are saying is what drives customers away. I have had plenty of customers tell me flat out that they will hang up and call back until they get an American.

The other problem is that they don't understand what they are doing, so they look for key words that make it another department's issue. Since certain types of support have to be US based, the reps find it easier to pass off calls rather than try and comprehend what the issues actually are.

We do have a feedback channel, but it doesn't appear to have any effect since the agents reported over and over are still there doing the same things.

So this is not about our outsourced agents being a certain race or nationality, but more that a certain nationality has concepts that are generally known through out the country. Outside of that country the ideas truly are foreign.

Examples, thoughts?

[Boozy]

So this is not about our outsourced agents being a certain race or nationality, but more that a certain nationality has concepts that are generally known through out the country.

For some people, it is about race or nationality. They could get the most experienced and knowledgeable rep the company has and still be unhappy because of a trace of an accent.

But for the rest of us, it's just damn frustrating at times. If I have to call my cable company, for example, I'm not doing it for my health. Chances are they screwed something up and I have to call and let them know. So why, in this circumstance, should I spend an extra ten minutes trying to get a poorly trained rep to understand what I'm saying? These companies save themselves a few bucks on labour by selling their customers' time.

Incidentally, I've run into this problem more often with domestic call centres than foreign ones. Companies don't have to go to India to cheap out on training.

[wanderingjoe72]

True, but my company has gone out of the country.

Statside call centers with poor service tend to be bottom of the barrel type places staffed with people that probably didn't apply themselves in school.
(granted there may be members here that have to work in a place like that since there are no alternatives in the town they are in, this is not about you)

It seems to me that this may be a case of education. In an overseas call center, if you can bluff your way through with enough english to get by, then you are filling a seat and it seems that is all they are trying to do. Companies are focusing on the wrong things. X amount of availability, calls answered in a certain amount of time, but not if the calls are actually resolved. Quality has gone out the window. If quality was the focus, the call centers would stay in the states and testing would be conducted prior to hiring and training would actually be a big budget item.

So your point is very valid. It is customer time that is being taken in the name of lower labor costs.

[daleduke17]

It is customer time that is being taken in the name of lower labor costs.

Not lower labor costs, lower prices for the consumer. /corporate

[anriana]

At my call center the outsourced centers routinely kicked our butts on quality scores.

Typical call beginning in my center:
"X Tech Support, how can I help you?"
"Blah blah blah"
"Okay, what's the phone number on the account?"
"Great, and the name and address?"
"Okay, have you powercycled yet?'

Typical call beginning in Indian and Filipino centers:
"Thank you very much for calling X Technical Support, this is Joe, how may I assist you today?"
"Blah blah blah"
"Oh no! I am so very sorry to hear that about your services ma'am. I will do everything I can to help you out today. Could I please have your phone number?"
"Thank you very much ma'am. Could you verify the name and address for me?"
"Oh, wonderful, thank you so much ma'am!"
etc


From what I've observed, a lot of the objection to outsourcing is about accent and the ability to communicate. The majority of "omg praise the lord yous 'merican" calls come from, well, people who talk like that with heavy accents and have difficulty understanding me and my elitist diction. I can somewhat understand why they wouldn't want to speak to someone with a different type of heavy accent.

[smileyeagle1021]

My biggest problem with outsourced call centers (and this applies to those kept in country but with a third party) is often times the agents will read off a script. I can work my way through the 1800 Holiday in 30 seconds if I reach the Phillipean center because I know their script and I have the answers to their questions before they ask... and trust me I've tried going off script for them and it doesn't work, even something so simple as "can I get the phone number for the Holiday Inn Express in Elko, I believe I left a phone charger there" is an ordeal. I've before been transferred back to the guest relations department in Salt Lake City to find out a phone number because the 800-Holiday agent thought I was trying to make a complaint against the hotel when I kept saying "no, I don't need to make a reservation, I do not have a reservation, I staid there and just need the phone number to check if I left something" thought that I must be filing a complaint against the hotel. I did however complain to the guest relations agent that the person in Manilla couldnt' answer a question like "what is the phone number to the elko hotel".

[Evandril]

My problems with overseas support are twofold...The first and primary one is purely the outsourcing of jobs from the USA, which I'm hoping is self-explanitory ;)

The second is, from my experiences, stateside quality is better, as far as pure ability to answer the question goes. Overseas will be more polite...and give me the wrong answer, in *my* experiences. (and have cost amazon a few hundred dollars along the way ;) ) If I have to work a bit harder to talk to some, to get the correct answer, that's fine...I might not like wasting my time, but what I care most about is getting the information I need.

[Slytovhand]

The first and primary one is purely the outsourcing of jobs from the USA, which I'm hoping is self-explanitory

No - please explain.... :D

I'm thinking - being a call centre idiot, that the problem comes down to that simple ability for a person to be able to use the language that they know and understand - and speak. Australian English is my language - not Indian English. They may use the same basic set of vocabulary - but there are expressions and phrases well understood by most aussies that it's no issue. To a non-aussie, it's a problem.

I too have had that little problem of asking something fairly simple and basic and not being understood - and it is infuriating... and I'm naturally sarcastic, so you can imagine where that might lead things... So, it's both accent and colloquiallisms.... oh - and that damn parrot... (I have no idea who thought of it, but constantly repeating "I'm sorry for your inconvenience, sir" does not show empathy or understanding, and is far more infuriating that saying it once, and then fixing it!

Also, I would fail also on those quality ratings... I converse with my customers - I treat them like a person - not just another customer. And if the customer has a problem I'm damn sure they don't want it exacerbated by having to repeat themselves numerous times to be understood. (I've got enough problems doing that with the locals here!) And I've got a couple of regular callers who I'm almost recognising by voice alone, who I chat with (doesn't do much for the AHT :p), but it's far better for building a positive perception of the company...(damn - I only just thought of that.. I'll have to stop that now).

[kiwi]

I think it can be a genuine problem if the person doesnt actually speak english

but I think many people hear accent and think OH LORDY NO!!!!

at the craft store we had a woman who spoke fluent and beautiful english, she spoke better english than I do but she had a slight Indian accent and her name was Indian.

as soon as customers heard this is person she would get the cat butt face (oh no shes serving me greeeeat) or if she answered the phone we would hear her say "but sir/maam I do speak english... here let me pass you on to a different staff member"

we were notirously unhelpful to those callers!

[Evandril]

Aye, I've always waited until *after* they couldn't help me to decide they didn't have a clue ;) Admittedly, the times I've had problems were very specific issues, and could well have had similar problems stateside, but...*shrugs*

[vanima]

Also, I would fail also on those quality ratings... I converse with my customers - I treat them like a person - not just another customer. And if the customer has a problem I'm damn sure they don't want it exacerbated by having to repeat themselves numerous times to be understood. (I've got enough problems doing that with the locals here!) And I've got a couple of regular callers who I'm almost recognising by voice alone, who I chat with (doesn't do much for the AHT :p), but it's far better for building a positive perception of the company...(damn - I only just thought of that.. I'll have to stop that now).

I work in a call center at a resort/casino (well part of the time i am there anyway)

I actually get better scores than MOST of my coworkers (there are about 5 of us out of 30 people that constantly get 100%) because i don't treat my guests as another customer.. they are my guests and i will do anything i can to assist them.. they are a person just like i am and i do not like being spoken to rudely so why would i do that to them.

the exception to that is when A) they start hitting on me over the phone because i have a cute voice {grr... that ticks me off} B) they are cursing at me {most of the time i say i am transferring them to a supervisor and hang up on them...} or C)they are straight out bitchy.. at which point i become mrs. Icy professional lady on the phone and not sweet southern girl :D

[Slytovhand]

Hey, Vanima, you sound cute... what time do you finish??? :angel:

I had a thought tonight, after trying to fight through what I hope was merely a language barrier with an Indian taxi driver... because I've had such battles numerous times before on the phones, and with taxi drivers, and because of some of the horror stories I've heard, again from said taxi drivers, I think I might have become a bit racist towards such an accent. It's from all that repeating of the same question over and over and over again. Or giving the same answer over and over and over again (granted, I get that a few times from lots of different people... CS is full of that one!)

Which isn't even remotely fair, as I've had quite a bit of contact with other Indians in my more recent years (including now, in this call centre).

It's that word 'stereotype'... once you've encountered a few of an example who all seem similar in one respect, you start to think that that is what they are all like...

[Refkeila]

I have an issue with outsourcing certain kinds of call centres to places like India for one reason.. Someone who needs, say, tech support when all they know how to do is turn on a computer/phone and use it may not be able to understand the terms someone is using through an accent. Also, just my experience, Indian people are incredibly rude *over the phone* and refuse to listen to what you're saying. (Whether it's been me trying to get help from them, or them calling in.)

[vanima]

Hey, Vanima, you sound cute... what time do you finish??? :angel:

I had a thought tonight, after trying to fight through what I hope was merely a language barrier with an Indian taxi driver... because I've had such battles numerous times before on the phones, and with taxi drivers, and because of some of the horror stories I've heard, again from said taxi drivers, I think I might have become a bit racist towards such an accent. It's from all that repeating of the same question over and over and over again. Or giving the same answer over and over and over again (granted, I get that a few times from lots of different people... CS is full of that one!)

Which isn't even remotely fair, as I've had quite a bit of contact with other Indians in my more recent years (including now, in this call centre).

It's that word 'stereotype'... once you've encountered a few of an example who all seem similar in one respect, you start to think that that is what they are all like...

*coughs then reaches through the computer to slap Slytovhand*

I try really hard to not get that stereotype when i am at work...i talk to MANY Asians daily.. and have the same problem with repetition.. drives me nuts but... its my job :D

and i do my job well :D

[smileyeagle1021]

Also, just my experience, Indian people are incredibly rude *over the phone* and refuse to listen to what you're saying. (Whether it's been me trying to get help from them, or them calling in.)

I had noticed that too the few times I got calls from India when I worked at the call center.
Though I will say, my biggest problems with Indians on the phone is that they always seem to talk so quietly then get upset when you don't understand them (which I guess is probably what we consider rude).

[otakuneko]

Foamy says "keep the jobs in the US, so I can understand who I'm talking to."

And remember folks, outsourcing does not necessarily == offshoring. Verizon, for example, does absolutely none of its DSL (FIOS is a different matter) support in-house. Pretty much all of it was outsourced to my former employer. Most FIOS support is actually in-house, but a good chunk of it is outsourced to my former employer's callcenter right here in DFW.

Oh, and we did have plenty of Indians, and other people from that region of the world. :p

[freeatlast]

My problems with overseas support are twofold...The first and primary one is purely the outsourcing of jobs from the USA, which I'm hoping is self-explanitory ;)

I was downsized from the Call Center From Hell because of outsourcing. They had another wave of downsizing in June and at the end of 2008 they closed the department I worked in. ALL calls are now outsourced. When I worked there, I took escalated calls. At least 80% of the calls transferred to me were from the outsourcing agents. Most of the time, they transferred because they did not want to try to figure out how to help the customers. Most of the time, the reason they gave for the transfer had nothing to do with the reason the customer was calling. We were instructed to do write ups for upper management regarding these transfers. It was a waste of time because they would not take any action.

Quite often, the outsourcing agent would lie about the transfer. For instance, they would say that the customer requested a supervisor because of the language/accent barrier. Once I would speak to the customer, I would find that as soon as the customer asked a question, the outsourcing agent would tell them that they could not help them and would need to transfer to a supervisor.

It was common knowledge that they were not upheld to the same quality standards as the agents in our own call center. It was cheaper to have the calls routed to them and know amount of complaints about the quality of their calls or the unneeded transfers meant anything to upper management. It was all about the $$.

At this point, the few remaining people who still work there (in other departments) are just waiting for the ax to fall. They know their days are numbered and the main reasons that the business is failing are the outsourcing of customer service and their complete lack of acknowledgement of their bad debt situation, which is another post in itself.

[Slytovhand]

Do the agents (who know the axe is coming) act like it to the callers? After all, what do they have to lose? Do they tell the customers why their call quality has plummetted due to lack of interest from management?

[freeatlast]

The only phone agents left are the outsourcing agents. They are unaware that complaints have been made regarding their lack of quality. The only people left (those who are waiting for the ax to fall) are people in other departments than customer service. The remaining departments have no contact with the customers.

[Gerrinson]

From a customer standpoint, I can attest to the fact that there are some really good outsourced agents and some really bad outsourced agents, just like people everywhere. The problem, especially with American customers, is that when you take a mediocre agent (not superb, but not bad, either) and toss in language barrier you wind up reducing the quality of the overall service provided.

And forcing them to be scripted - I hated scripts when I worked in a call center. I hate them 10x more as a customer. If I could round up all the corporate retards responsible for approving these scripts - and, honestly, do they actually READ the verdammt things - I would shoot them all and know I had done the world a favor. I don't want to hear my own name 500x, I don't care if you're 'sorry' about the inconvenience - just fix my damned problem!

What I hate worse than outsourced phone agents are outsourced email respondents. They don't actually READ the emails, they scan for keywords, do a d-base search, then cut & paste whatever top response the d-base spits out. And they do that to each of your replies until finally the 5th or 6th email gets into the hands of someone who can actually comprehend what you wrote.

On several occasions, I've simply cut all ties with companies simply because their customer 'service' was designed to be customer 'disservice' due to outsourcing to cheap but low quality agencies.

Again, I think it boils down to the language/cultural differences making what would normally be an average or slightly sub-par experience and reducing the quality to the point that customers can't stand it.

On the flip side, the Indian support team that I worked with at GE was far more qualified and helpful than anyone I worked with in the US. I nearly broke down and cried when I heard their contract was cancelled.

[PepperElf]

My biggest issue is ... just communications.

The first time I ever had to call HP for help on my old computer... I got an outsourced tech.

It wouldn't have mattered, but... all she did was gather information without even attempting to make sure it was right. I don't remember if I spelled out my last name for her or not... I usually do because it's Polish.

What I do remember is that when she sent me to the next tech (with an American accent) the poor lady had to basically re-do everything the outsourced tech had done because she got it all wrong. My name, my street name, even my computer model number.

She might as well have just let a cat walk across the keyboard for all of her "accuracy".


So, in cases like that, outsourcing can actually waste money, because the Full-pay tech has an even longer job if she or he has to re-do everything the outsource-pay tech did.

"Paying two people to do one person's job" does not strike me as a winning motto for a successful company.

[tropicsgoddess]

I've never been a fan of overseas support to begin with.


Less jobs for us here in the U.S.
2. Miscommunications
3. (more often than not) Crappy Customer Service

[PepperElf]

ironically in one of my computer classes we went over some terminology related to this.

according to the textbook

Out-sourcing = sending work to another company
Off-shoring = sending work to another country

though yeah even he knows we tend to use "outsourcing" for sending work to other countries
back to the original post :D

[Fire_on_High]

My biggest issue is ... just communications.

The first time I ever had to call HP for help on my old computer... I got an outsourced tech.

It wouldn't have mattered, but... all she did was gather information without even attempting to make sure it was right. I don't remember if I spelled out my last name for her or not... I usually do because it's Polish.

What I do remember is that when she sent me to the next tech (with an American accent) the poor lady had to basically re-do everything the outsourced tech had done because she got it all wrong. My name, my street name, even my computer model number.



That was my experience with HP when a Pavilion Elite I got as a gift had recurrent video card issues. I gave them an email address I don't frequently use, since my normal one was down at the time due to a server move. The first part of it rhymed somewhat with my surname, but was actually unrelated.

Well...the first tech completely bungled the name and it shipped with a male Hispanic first name sounding a bit like mine and the email addy as my last name. I got the part, but boy am I glad there was no issue with shipping...I couldn't have done squat about it legally. I did call between notification and when it shipped to try and get it corrected, but to not avail.

Same part died again about a month later, and the American tech managed to fix the name issue, but insisted on some rather annoying troubleshooting by script. I'd already done the work...intermittent fan failure after use under load which sent the temp skyrocketing to 115c. Very straightforward, and Everest + listening to when it stopped grinding and rattling offered unmistakeable evidence.

The next replacement was one step shy of totally DOA. Back to an Indian tech this time, and he was *incredibly* stubborn and willing to simply dig his heels in and holler til I knuckled under and did what he wanted. Normally I could understand the desire to perform diagnostics, but when the machine was consistently locking up 10 seconds after booting, or dissolving into a lovely test pattern-y blur as early as the HP splash screen, how about...that thing ain't going back in? No, no, and hell no...

What part of "does not boot, generally" and "locks up immediately when it does" isn't clear? But I didn't get sucky...just very, very firm. He did realize how much chance there was of creating further issues and went thru the diags on my old card while the fan was working to fill out the form.

I know the script is there for a reason but mindlessly attempting to follow it on equipment too screwed up to work is a waste of everyone's time. The intensive diagostic apps were all inside Windows...on a machine that wouldn't boot without locking up. Hello?

To this day I'm morbidly curious what he would have done if I'd said it caught fire on me.