I'll pray for you

[Luna]

Prayer - no matter what religion you follow - and correct me if I'm wrong - is a form of asking from you to your God/s/esses to intervene in your life and bring about change.

If so, when someone comes up to me and tells me "I'll pray for your soul" (in that f*ck off and die tone of voice I may add) doesn't that mean they are asking their God to intervene in my life without my permission?

Isn't that, in essence - the blackest magic one can perform? Despite any good intentions? Directing the powers that be to make change on someone else’s life whether or not they like it? To impose your will on their life's path simply because you wish it to be so?

In reiki, you are forbidden to heal without permission. This is along the same lines as my prayer issues. If someone asks for my prayers and healing - I will give it fully as it was asked for. I would never pray for someone, or send healing energies to someone without permission.


Thoughts?

[Rapscallion]

I've been an atheist for years. From my perspective, it's a waste of breath. Sure, someone means well, but it's a waste of their time. There's also a fine line between doing it for the intended recipient's good and for the good of the prayer-sayer.

I'm curious if anyone has ever said a prayer for someone of the same basic religion but different denomination to see the true light? Say, for example, a catholic prays for a protestant to convert, or a sunni prays for the conversion of a shi'ite?

Interestingly, there are often threads about needing prayers on CS - usually when illness strikes a relative etc. No specific denominations are ever mentioned, which is rather gratifying. I'm just wondering if someone would refuse a prayer because it was said by a wiccan when they were a bhuddist or similar?

Rapscallion

[Rubystars]

I've had friends that are of alternative religions offer to pray for me or do rituals on my behalf and I just told them that their well wishes were enough. Asking for help from them in that way would make me complicit in the pagan rituals, etc. I can't really control what they do though. I gladly accept prayers from Christians and Jews because I feel that those religions are at least addressing the correct Deity, the one I believe in.

You can't dictate what someone else is going to do. If you know someone is praying for you and you don't like it, as in the above situation I described, then you can always ask them not to. It's really up to them though.

I can't speak for other belief systems but as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't matter how much I prayed for someone if they didn't have the will to be open to change. I don't believe God violates people's will, but I do think that God can help them change their mind by sending people to minister to them in the ways that they need to hear it. So I sometimes pray for God to send people that will help in a particular person's life, or for God to help the person get into a position where they're more ready to listen.

Another thing is that prayer isn't always asking for something. Sometimes it's just to talk with God, like praise/worship.

[rahmota]

I can see your point Luna. (Please take no offense in my next comment as I'm aethiest/agnostic/apathetic by personal choice) If there are sentient higher powers that give a rat's patootie about humanity then by praying for someone else that is directly affecting and interefereing in a person's self determination/free will. That is assuming of course that a higher power would actually respond to the said prayers.

Imagine someone asking jehovah to do good thigns for a muslim. Just how likely would it be for that prayer to be answered given the thousands of years of hatred between christians and muslims. bOr even better wiccan who are considered pagen heathens by a lot of christians.

Generally the only time I've had someone tell me they will pray for me is in that snotty hateful supercillis tone which translates as "I'll pray for you to get over having a free will and mind of your own and start thinking and acting like me and my church do!"

Rubystars: One of the things I noted about the christian bible (KJV, RSV, NSV etc,) was the multitude of times when the christian god intervened and interferred in people's free will. I mean for an example the pharoh was going to let moses and his folks go but for some reason god hardened his heart. Ther eis the entire story of Job, Jonah, etc... One of the hazards of giving folks free will is that they may turn their back on the deity. But the christian god has a long history of meddling in the affairs of mortals, almost as bad as any other deity from the ancient cultures. One of the reasons I turned away from religion. Too much pressure to conform and deny free will and be assimilated into the rest of the body church, otherwise they will pray for you.....

[DisgruntledBadger]

I think it has to do with the context, really. If someone walks up to me and gives me that "I'll pray for your soul" snarkiness, then yeah, I would consider that meddling. My soul is just fine, thank you. It does not need the smudgy fingerprints of your Great Soul Collector In The Sky. If I or one of my loved ones is ill or going through a difficult time and someone says they'll pray for me/them, I consider that the prayer is offered out of goodwill. It's never much mattered to me what deity a person is praying to; I've always felt that a good act is a good act and doesn't need to be performed within the confines of a certain religious dichotomy to mean something.

[rahmota]

Badger: I guess good is a somewhat relative term. For some having a person pray to a deity that they do not follow is not a good act but somewhat insulting I guess would be the right term. Personally I don't care as long as they are not using the prayer as another weapon to "proove" their superiority.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I tend to post on threads that ask for prayers that I'm sending good thoughts; being an atheist that leans towards satanism, I have no belief in a god or that there's anything. We rot in the ground afterwards; plus, cuz we're a long time dead, we should enjoy life to the full.

However, nothing annoys me more than some godbotherer coming up to me in the street and saying something like "I will pray for your soul" or "Have you found Jesus?" It just pisses me off; I know all religious people aren't like that, but the ones who are who do this just give all religious people a bad name.

[AFPheonix]

Meh.

I figure I can use all the help I can get ;)
And for most people, it's their way of saying that they care about you, and a way for them to "help" you. I don't find that to be offensive in the least.

[Technical.Angel]

saying something like..."Have you found Jesus?"

Ya know, I'm SOOOO waiting for someone to say that to me! I have a million of 'em, just waiting!

"Yeah! Can you believe he was behind my couch this entire time?!?!"
"What, did you lose him again? I swear! You think you'd people would keep better track of your savior!"
"Not yet! But if I find him, I'll let him know you're looking for him."
"Yeah! He's living out in California these days!"

Jenni

[Boozy]

Ya know, I'm SOOOO waiting for someone to say that to me! I have a million of 'em, just waiting!

Which sucks - because the second you think of a great comeback for something, no one will ever say anything to you on the subject ever again. Murphy's Law.

(I really hope that doesn't happen in your case, because those one-liners were hilarious!)

[Lace Neil Singer]

Ya know, I'm SOOOO waiting for someone to say that to me! I have a million of 'em, just waiting!

"Yeah! Can you believe he was behind my couch this entire time?!?!"
"What, did you lose him again? I swear! You think you'd people would keep better track of your savior!"
"Not yet! But if I find him, I'll let him know you're looking for him."
"Yeah! He's living out in California these days!"

Jenni
:D My reply to that was, "Nope. I suggest you check behind your fridge." XD Yours are better, tho.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Well for me it depends on how the offer of prayer is given.

If I get "I'll pray for your soul" then I get a pissy about it since I don't think my soul needs saving. I live a life where I help where I can and leave well enough alone when I can't. While I believe that it's all one Divinity and that we each just look at it in our own different way, I don't want the negative energy. What they do is to make themselves feel better by belittling me and my faith.

On the other hand if I'm sick and someone says that they'll pray for me to get better sooner, I'll gladly take that as it was meant with good intentions. Since I believe that it's all one Divinity out there, I know that they are doing it because they care about me and that I'm going to get the same positive energy and feelings from Christians, Jewish, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans, Etc.

I also don't see it as an intrusion or an imposition of someone else's will on mine. They pray for me and my family in much the same way that others might bring me a basket of fruit or some soup while I'm recovering.

Besides...I'm always amused at the experiment where they tried to grow mold samples and had they prayed over, performed ritual over, and ignored. The ignored one had normal growth while the prayer and the ritual ones had equal amounts of enhanced growth. Kinda makes one realize that it really doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have it in something.

But that's my two centi-credit's worth

M

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Ya know, I'm SOOOO waiting for someone to say that to me! I have a million of 'em, just waiting!

"Yeah! Can you believe he was behind my couch this entire time?!?!"
"What, did you lose him again? I swear! You think you'd people would keep better track of your savior!"
"Not yet! But if I find him, I'll let him know you're looking for him."
"Yeah! He's living out in California these days!"

Jenni

Reminds me of a car I was behind with bumper stickers that damn near had me drive right off the road.

"Jesus Saves Sinners and redeems them for valuable cash prizes"
"Jesus saves, passes to Jordan, He shoots HE SCORES"

and my personal favorite

"Jesus saves but everyone else in the party takes full damage from the fireball"

M

[Foxglove8778]

"I'll pray for your soul."
"Why? You don't like the one you have?"

Seriously, I find a real difference between "Chruchianity" and Christianity as well as a difference between Spiritual and Religeous.

I believe that the intention is as important as the action.
I doubt that prayers uttered in spite do the sender any good at all. A person that uses religeon spitefully is someone that needs to focus inward with more honesty.