Stupid People bitching about holiday greetings! [Archive]

Amethyst Hunter

12-01-2008, 05:57 PM

Oh, how I hate these idiots. Hate them, hate them, hate them. They need to be choked with their own tinsel decorations (if they have any, and even if they don't, they still need to be strung up).

I speak, of course, of that Special breed of idiot, the kind who flips out on you if you say anything other than "Merry Christmas" to them at this time of year. (Also, the dumbshits who freak if you DO say Merry Christmas because they don't celebrate that particular holiday. Dude, unless you're walking around with a big-ass sign over your head denoting what (if any) religion you belong to, how the fuck are we Joe Stranger Public supposed to know what you do or don't celebrate?) Because, of course, if you don't say Merry Christmas in that exact phrasing, you are persecuting OMG Teh Xtian People!! (Not to be confused with actual Christians, who, y'know, have common sense and don't wig out over a harmless wish of general goodwill.)

Jackasses, hop a plane or boat to the nearest 3rd world craphole where they routinely guillotine Christians just for looking at a Bible - THAT'S persecution. Here's a hint, fundie nuts: those who scream the loudest about being "persecuted" for being Xtian are usually the LEAST Christian of all. So STFU and let the rest of us glean what enjoyment we can out of a holiday season that's been overcommercialized to the North Pole and back again.

This rant has proudly been brought to you by the letters F and U and by our sponsors the Ramen Noodles. :D

Greenday

12-01-2008, 06:09 PM

Whether you celebrate Christmas or not, Christmas is still December 25th. So if someone wishes you a merry Christmas, it's the same as saying have a nice day. There is NO reason to complain about it.

Boozy

12-01-2008, 10:04 PM

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Season's Greetings... they all basically mean "I wish you well during the month of December."

How did such a kind and polite message come to be interpreted as something ugly?

Two words: "Fox News." Or "Bill O'Reilly". Take your pick.

McDreidel09

12-01-2008, 10:48 PM

These are the reasons I will put up a sign that says "Happy Whatever You Celebrate" in the classroom that I student aide for. If students bitch at me, I will say "But in the teacher evaluations for Mr S, you complained about no decorations."

vanima

12-02-2008, 12:04 AM

I always say happy holidays from just before thanksgiving until new years... and if someone bitches i say... i am wishing not only christmas but thanksgiving, new years, and all the other non christian holidays to be happy as well.. and then go about my day...

they end up looking like a jackass :D

anriana

12-02-2008, 01:18 AM

I dislike the holiday season and annoying chipper people who constantly remind me of it, whether that be through obnoxiously evangelical "merry christmas!"es or just annoying "happy holidays!" What exactly are we celebrating? Consumerism? The Catholic church appropriating pagan celebrations in an attempt at religious supremacy? English settlers getting help from Native Americans before committing genocide against them? Annoying visits with annoying family? Ritualized slaughter of turkeys?

Just say "good evening." Not annoying, not political. Yay.

Greenday

12-02-2008, 02:02 AM

Problem is, there are plenty of people who celebrate holidays just to be with their families. Not everyone has such dastardly plans for holidays.

Devilboy

12-02-2008, 06:27 PM

Happy Festivus!!

protege

12-02-2008, 06:56 PM

Nobody celebrates Winter-een-mas?

vanima

12-02-2008, 07:22 PM

Nobody celebrates Winter-een-mas?

best holiday EVER

daleduke17

12-03-2008, 04:12 AM

And this is the reason I don't say anything other than "Have a nice day" (or the time-of-day equivalent).

Amethyst Hunter

12-03-2008, 07:11 AM

Okay, this is it, this is EXACTLY the kind of crap I'm talking about here. Check out this gem I just discovered in a local paper:

December 2, 2008

I am proud to say 'Merry Christmas' to everyone -- peacefully

With the trouble that the world is in now, with the recession/depression and all the violence everywhere, we all need to wake up and once and for all put the true meaning back into Christmas. I am so tired of losing my right as a Christian not to be able to say "Merry Christmas" in public, or to hear Merry Christmas from someone that has had their job threatened or to be written up if they are heard saying it.

The whole reason for Christmas is because God blessed the Virgin Mary with child and brought His son Jesus Christ to earth to be born and die to forgive us from our sins. How could we ever forget that? Sadly, because so many people have, the world is in the shape that it is, and getting worse. We buy and exchange gifts to each other in celebration and remembrance of the gifts that were brought to the Baby Jesus from the wise men. The lights on the trees are a symbol of the star lighting the way to Bethlehem for Christ's birth.

Everyone of every nationality has the right to celebrate Christmas (or any other holiday, for that matter) in their own tradition. We as Christians have the right to wish anyone we come in contact with a Merry Christmas. In return, I expect people of other religions to greet me in their custom ways without being offended.

I am taking a strong stand this year, and wishing all those I see a Merry Christmas, because I am proudly celebrating the birthday of my savior Jesus Christ. Jesus says in the Bible, "if you are ashamed of Me, I will be ashamed of you before my Father." I don't know about any of you other Christians, but I don't want to come face to face with Christ when I die and have to explain that I went with the world and denied His birthday. Do you?

Religious stuff aside, it sounds like this person's just looking for an excuse to be offended. Losing her right?? Bullshit! Since when are people holding guns to Christians' heads telling them they have no right to say "Merry Christmas"? Last I looked, no laws were being passed saying that telling someone "Merry Christmas" was illegal.

I'm definitely writing a rebuttal for this one.

Boozy

12-03-2008, 02:10 PM

Who or what exactly does this person think is stopping them from saying "Merry Christmas" in public? What instrument of the state is removing her right to use this phrase?

This has got to be my biggest pet peeve. People who think that their right to free speech means no one can voice disagreement with them, ever.

If Person A says "Merry Christmas" to someone, and Person B responds with "Eff you, bitch! I'm not Christian, so shut up!" then Person B is a raging douchebag. However, if Person B responds with, "And Happy Holidays to you!", and Person A responds by getting offended, then Person A is the douche.

But neither person has been denied nor denied others free speech.

protege

12-03-2008, 03:02 PM

But neither person has been denied nor denied others free speech.

That's how I see it too, Boozy. Problem is, that quite a few "Christians" (not real Christians, BTW) *want* to see it as losing their rights. They *want* to be "persecuted" so they have an excuse to act like bigger douchebags than they already are.

DrT

12-03-2008, 03:15 PM

Won't be the first time that 'right for free speech' and 'right to be protected against anyone disagreeing with me' are mixed up...

This whole problematic is so odd when seen from the outside. I don't know how the Australians or Canadians look at it, but I know that over in Europe people couldn't even undertand the concept of being offended by anyone telling you, or not, to have a merry Xmas.

Maybe it's because religion is so little an issue, or something, but in any case it's a nice way to break the ice, start a conversation, and really wonder at how odd american society is.
I'm the one defending it most often, mind you (spent 8 yrs there, I know of to debunk the idiotic concepts and falsehoods on the US), but there are still things that amaze me.

Boozy

12-03-2008, 06:02 PM

This whole problematic is so odd when seen from the outside. I don't know how the Australians or Canadians look at it, but I know that over in Europe people couldn't even undertand the concept of being offended by anyone telling you, or not, to have a merry Xmas.

The thing is, I'll bet the average American isn't offended, either.

There's a small group of morons (in any country) that will start flapping their pie holes about dumb shit like this. The problem is, Fox News, and Bill O'Reilly specifically, decided to get this small group of idjits worked up about this a few years back. And then they reported on it, essentially creating a controversy where there was none. Now this pointless argument fueled by a small group of nut jobs is big news.

Interestingly, Fox's Rupert Murdoch is Australian. What happened there? Did the Aussies kick him out for being such a dick? Or did they purposefully send him to the US? Americans should consider that an act of war! :D

AFPheonix

12-03-2008, 10:50 PM

It also loops back to what people hear and repeat back to each other in the church. Christians honestly feel like the world is out attacking them. They use military imagery constantly, even indoctrinating it into children by teaching them about putting on the full armor of God (I even had a playset of plastic armor as a child with each piece depicted in that particular Bible passage marked accordingly), singing songs like:
I may never march in the infantry
Ride in the cavalry
Shoot the artillery
I may never fly over the enemy
But I'm in the Lord's Army Yes Sir!

And on and on and on. It keeps people circled into the flock better if they think that their ideals are under attack, and this is just another example. If they bothered to open their eyes, they'd see their particular version of the holiday is quite well represented everywhere.

Flyndaran

12-03-2008, 10:56 PM

I try to take every given, "Happy (anything)." the benefit of the doubtthat they simply wish me to enjoy the holdiay that they currently celebrate. End of topic.
If they give it in an obviously antagonistic way, as to suss out if I'm a fellow believer, then I will probably just ignore them with an unrepressed eyeroll. I allow myself such behavioral imperfections to maintain sanity.

As an atheist, I personally don't feel comfortable wishing someone a happy christmas. To me it feels too much like wishing them continued self-delusion. That's mean from my perspective.
If someone gets irate about my, "Happy holidays." or simple, "Hello.", then they get a little more than an eyeroll and shunning. They get an irritated grimace and maybe a, "pfft" utterance. I will forever, hopefully, refuse to sink to their level and give them the fight they so desparately want.

Flyndaran

12-03-2008, 10:57 PM

...
And on and on and on. It keeps people circled into the flock better if they think that their ideals are under attack, and this is just another example. If they bothered to open their eyes, they'd see their particular version of the holiday is quite well represented everywhere.

It's like political hot buttons. If you keep them focussed on looking outward, then they won't look inward to corrupt leaders, and mismanagement.

Amethyst Hunter

12-04-2008, 05:41 AM

And here is my reply that I'll be sending to the paper re: the freakout over "Merry Christmas"...

December 2, 2008

So, the Christmas Wars are back. Take a good look around America. Last I checked, there were no laws against saying or not saying “Merry Christmas”, nor were Christians being jailed or executed for speaking those words. A group's rights can't be lost when that group is still the dominant power in this country. Go someplace where the minority populations of Christians are routinely guillotined just for looking at a Bible – THAT'S real persecution. Hearing various holiday-related greetings does not and never will count as discrimination, regardless of anyone's beliefs.

Know why people working retail are disciplined or fired over this nonsense? Because paranoid entitlement-minded grinches eager to pitch a tantrum over receiving any wish of general goodwill complain to corporate management, who then put greed over common sense and take things out on the poor employees. Would you rather have a cashier say “Screw you” instead of “Happy Holidays?” Some of them would really like to do that when dealing with those types of customers, believe me!

Unless you have a sign over your head denoting what religion, if any, you hail from, it's impossible for strangers to know what you do or don't celebrate. If you don't like hearing a certain phrase, simply walk away. No one's forcing you to participate in any rituals. We sensible folks enjoy our chosen holiday without wasting time on martyr complexes or politically correct games. The holiday season encompasses all joyful religious and secular goodwill amidst humanity; hence the multiple and colorful expressions of it.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

[my name]

And yes, that ending bit is my way of saying "Fuck You" to all those idiots who get pissed off no matter what greeting you lob at them. :D

DrT

12-04-2008, 08:53 AM

There's a small group of morons (in any country) that will start flapping their pie holes about dumb shit like this. The problem is, Fox News, and Bill O'Reilly specifically, decided to get this small group of idjits worked up about this a few years back. And then they reported on it, essentially creating a controversy where there was none. Now this pointless argument fueled by a small group of nut jobs is big news.

True that. The issue really is that the proportion of morons for any given country being the same, the US gets the most of them (they are 300 milions total)
Well, except for China (but they get shot there) and India (but nobody gives a damn about them, and the cast system takes care of the rest).

So you have a huge bunch of morons talking the same langage (that's why we have it better in Europe ;) and easily communicating....
I'd say it's one more reason to dissolve the federal governement and go back to each state governing itself.

Evandril

12-06-2008, 01:34 AM

Xtian People!! (Not to be confused with actual Christians, who, y'know, have common sense and don't wig out over a harmless wish of general goodwill.)

Yay! Someone else who uses xtian and Christian the way I do :)

We've got some idiots at work that have refused to come to the 'Holiday Party' because of it's name...Despite the fact it's between Thanksgiving and Christmas (Is Xmas themed though, I'll admit)

As a nice side point...I had a Christian friend of mine who *wouldn't* celebrate Xmas, since he (rightfully) claimed it was a pagan holiday, and not really when Christ was born :) He'd also 'defend' me from the attack xtains fairly often, was fun :)

Flyndaran

12-06-2008, 05:19 AM

X-tian is just a nickname based on the first letter of Christ in greek. It has no other ulterior meanings. I would appreciate if those pro and con wouldn't try to add any. It just confuseses an already volitile issue.

Amethyst Hunter

12-07-2008, 04:11 AM

X-tian is just a nickname based on the first letter of Christ in greek. It has no other ulterior meanings.

I first started using "Xtian" as an abbreviation, since that was how I first encountered it. Over time, I saw people using it more as a way to differentiate between fundie nutjobs and people who behaved sanely, the latter getting the full "Christian" spelling as a mark of respect, because even if they and others (agnostics, atheists, pagans, etc.) disagreed, they could still stay cool about things. The fundie nuts, on the other hand, are the ones out there waving their little signs and marching their little protests and trying to pass as many bullshit laws as they can, because they're so into the whole "OMG WE R TEH PERSECUTED!!" crap.

Here's how I see it, at least in regards to the topic:

Stranger: Happy Holidays!

Christian: Thank you! And a Merry Christmas to you too! (Said in a friendly tone, of course)

Stranger: Thanks, dude! :)

Stranger: Happy Holidays!

Xtian: IT'S MERRY CHRISTMAS, NOT HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! HOW DARE YOU TAKE CHRIST OUT OF CHRISTMAS! I'M LOSING MY RIGHT AS A CHRISTIAN!!

Stranger: ...

Big difference between the two, no?

Bottom line IMO is that if you act like a decent human being regardless of your religion (or lack thereof), then I will gladly give you the respect that you deserve. Act like a spoogemuffin, and I'm gonna rip you apart, coal or no coal in my stocking. :D

Slytovhand

12-07-2008, 01:15 PM

I'm one of those slightly more annoying ones who don't like copping the "Merry Christmas" line - but that's cos I'm pagan.

Happy Holidays makes sense - at the very least because it's the end of the year, and that's when pretty much every culture (well, based on the Western calender). But I'll only get narky towards those who actually know me. Strangers - I just let it pass... in silence.....

I'M LOSING MY RIGHT AS A CHRISTIAN!!

Not before I lost my rights as a pagan.... :D

Oh - and trust me, if we started throwing around "Happy Saturnalia" you'd get a few not-nice comments.

Boozy - as per Rupert Murdoch... yep, our declaration of war on the US... why has it taken this long for people to notice???

Flyndaran

12-07-2008, 01:30 PM

...
Oh - and trust me, if we started throwing around "Happy Saturnalia" you'd get a few not-nice comments.
...

Maybe they confused it with "Happy Bachinalia".
As a male, I would be quite scared if a woman wished me that. I don't want my limbs torn off by crazy chicks. ;)

Slytovhand

12-08-2008, 01:29 PM

??? Where do you get the "limbs torn off by crazy chicks" from??

It was to honour Bacchus/Dionysus - and thus a time to drink, drink, drink and drink. Oh, and have a bit of rumpy-pumpy... and then drink some more. No limb tearing involved.

(sounds a bit like Christmas, yes?? :p)

Flyndaran

12-08-2008, 03:46 PM

??? Where do you get the "limbs torn off by crazy chicks" from??
...)

I think it might have been in a greek play or some such. I remember a female only celebration that if any man should witness it, the women under the influence of a trance like physically enhance state would kill them by tearing them apart.

Rapscallion

12-08-2008, 05:10 PM

I think you may have the Maenads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maenads) in mind.

Rapscallion

Flyndaran

12-08-2008, 06:47 PM

I think you may have the Maenads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maenads) in mind.

Rapscallion

Ahhhh. That's it. It's been so long since I read about classic Greek and Roman mythology. My mistake.

AdminAssistant

12-08-2008, 09:57 PM

Ah, Dionysus. The god of sex, wine, and theatre. We have the best god! :p

Lace Neil Singer

12-11-2008, 01:41 PM

I'm an atheist; and I wish people "Happy Christmas." I see it as a family occasion more than anything. I never really got the hang of "Happy Holidays/Festivus/Winterville" XD

anriana

12-11-2008, 04:14 PM

I'm an atheist; and I wish people "Happy Christmas." I see it as a family occasion more than anything. I never really got the hang of "Happy Holidays/Festivus/Winterville" XD

That would be because you're an atheist and not Jewish/Pagan/a practicer of Kwanzaa.

daleduke17

12-12-2008, 03:58 AM

That would be because you're an atheist and not Jewish/Pagan/a practicer of Kwanzaa.

Because, you know, everyone has to get offended by something, right?

Lace Neil Singer

12-12-2008, 08:08 PM

That would be because you're an atheist and not Jewish/Pagan/a practicer of Kwanzaa.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the point you're trying to make. :rolleyes: So, you're saying that cuz I'm an atheist, I'm therefore not allowed to say "Happy Christmas" on the offchance that I might offend a pagan, Jew or someone who celebrates Kwanza? Strange, my dad is Jewish and doesn't get offended. Nor do any people who have common sense... so unless I'm telling people "Go fuck yourself and have a happy Christmas" I really don't see why people have a right to be offended.

anriana

12-12-2008, 08:16 PM

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the point you're trying to make. :rolleyes: So, you're saying that cuz I'm an atheist, I'm therefore not allowed to say "Happy Christmas" on the offchance that I might offend a pagan, Jew or someone who celebrates Kwanza? Strange, my dad is Jewish and doesn't get offended. Nor do any people who have common sense... so unless I'm telling people "Go fuck yourself and have a happy Christmas" I really don't see why people have a right to be offended.

Oh, I love people who roll their eyes and say "I have a family member who is X and isn't offended by Y so there can't possibly be a problem with it, and only people with no common sense could possibly get offended by what I'm saying" argument.

And no, my point was that as someone who doesn't celebrate Hannukah/Solstice/Kwanza/etc, of course you wouldn't "get the hang of" those holidays or those religious greetings.

Pedersen

12-12-2008, 08:45 PM

Oh, I love people who roll their eyes and say "I have a family member who is X and isn't offended by Y so there can't possibly be a problem with it, and only people with no common sense could possibly get offended by what I'm saying" argument.

Oh, I love arguments made by people who feel that personal attacks are the easiest and most reliable way to discredit a person. And yes, what you wrote there very much sounds like a personal attack.

And no, my point was that as someone who doesn't celebrate Hannukah/Solstice/Kwanza/etc, of course you wouldn't "get the hang of" those holidays or those religious greetings.

But, being an atheist, Lace will obviously "get the hang of" Christmas. Right. I like how many assumptions can be put into that statement, so let's list them out, shall we?

Lace was born into and lived in a society that preaches Christmas.
Lace was not born in a region where Christmas is considered "odd" (such as much of the Middle East, East Asia, etc).
Lace was born into a household which would have allowed Christmas to be the norm, including the possibility that Lace was born into a Christian household.
Lace later stopped following the practices of the parents, and became an atheist independently.
Lace's parents were not atheists.

That's the list I could think of quickly. I'm sure there's quite a few others packed into that sentence of yours. I wasn't sure it was possible to pack so many assumptions into so small a thought. Impressive.

anriana

12-12-2008, 10:12 PM

Oh, I love arguments made by people who feel that personal attacks are the easiest and most reliable way to discredit a person. And yes, what you wrote there very much sounds like a personal attack.

A personal attack would be something like "you're a condescending asshole incapable of communicating in a polite manner." Sarcastically expressing my dislike of people who rudely roll their eyes at me and then paraphrasing their argument is not a personal attack.

But, being an atheist, Lace will obviously "get the hang of" Christmas. Right. I like how many assumptions can be put into that statement, so let's list them out, shall we?

Lace was born into and lived in a society that preaches Christmas.
Lace was not born in a region where Christmas is considered "odd" (such as much of the Middle East, East Asia, etc).
Lace was born into a household which would have allowed Christmas to be the norm, including the possibility that Lace was born into a Christian household.
Lace later stopped following the practices of the parents, and became an atheist independently.
Lace's parents were not atheists.

That's the list I could think of quickly. I'm sure there's quite a few others packed into that sentence of yours. I wasn't sure it was possible to pack so many assumptions into so small a thought. Impressive.

Did you read anything in this thread other than my reply?

I'm an atheist; and I wish people "Happy Christmas." I see it as a family occasion more than anything. I never really got the hang of "Happy Holidays/Festivus/Winterville" XD

She specifically said that she sees Christmas as a family occasion, so, yes, it is reasonable to assume all of these things, except for the last two, which I did not assume.

Boozy

12-12-2008, 10:26 PM

Oh, I love arguments made by people who feel that personal attacks are the easiest and most reliable way to discredit a person. And yes, what you wrote there very much sounds like a personal attack.

And *I* love it when no one bothers using the report button.

Oh, wait -- that's right. I don't love that. It drives me batshit insane. ;)

Don't call people out in the thread, please. If you feel there has been a personal attack, please report the post and let the moderators deal with it.

On a related note, sarcasm is best used very sparingly. It sets an antagonistic tone, and has the tendency to make arguments seem personal whether that was intended or not. If you have something to say, say it clearly and respectfully.

Slytovhand

12-13-2008, 12:46 PM

My 2 cents is being spent on saying that I got lost in the thread of argument (or lack thereof).

I believe that Anriana was trying to say that Lace wouldn't get the hang of "Happy Holidays/Festivus/Winterville" because that's not a part of her cultural reference... just as those born and bred as atheist wouldn't get the hang of Merry Christmas... and those in Islamic countries wouldnt' either. How would "Happy Hannukah" go down with christians? Muslims??

Also, everyone has a right to get offended at any damn thing they want. That's the nature of being human. Whether you agree with them or not is a completely different, and irrelevent, issue.

I'm not a Xtian type person. Nor Jewish. I am pagan. Saying 'Merry Christmas' to me I take as a well wishing from someone who is ignorant of my beliefs. But if my friends do it... watch out! (especially since most - if not all - of my friends aren't christian either -and some celebrate the Solstice... and I really don't like hypocrisy).

Anriana's post makes perfect sense given her sigline.... :D (and "my friends are X, but they Y - thus everyone must Y as well" fits nicely into that saying).

Flyndaran

12-13-2008, 03:50 PM

I'm a born atheist, so no religion makes sense. I still respond in kind to those wishing me a happy anything. I will respond with a happy holidays, kwanza (no matter what I think of intentionally made up holidays less than 100 years old), and merry christmas. Happiness is too rare in this world to actually lose it because someone wishes it upon you.
That's silly.

AFPheonix

12-13-2008, 11:55 PM

Besides, Christmas has moved away from its religious roots, both Christian and Celtic. It shouldn't be any more insulting to a random person to wish them a Merry Christmas than wishing someone a happy President's Day, as both are secular holidays.

Amethyst Hunter

12-14-2008, 04:19 AM

everyone has a right to get offended at any damn thing they want. That's the nature of being human. Whether you agree with them or not is a completely different, and irrelevent, issue.

You (generic you) may have the right to be offended at whatever you want; however, that doesn't necessarily always give one the right to act like an asshole about it. That's the type of idiot we're talking about who freaks out over "Happy Holidays" versus "Merry Christmas." Wouldn't the Christian thing to do be a simple "thank you" and/or friendly greeting in return, instead of claiming persecution (where there is none; sorry, you aren't being persecuted when you're still the dominant religion in this country) and playing the martyr card?

Slytovhand

12-14-2008, 02:21 PM

AH - yes, this is true. I wasn't trying to defend those idiots who make massive big deals about such things to everyone who comes along - especially about the "Happy Holidays" line - I mean, that'd be more of a 'persecution' (ha!) to only say "Merry Christmas" is an accepted greeting. "Holidays" is more encompassing - "Christmas" isn't.

How about..."Happy Consumerism Day"?? :D

Rapscallion

12-14-2008, 03:51 PM

How about..."Happy Consumerism Day"?? :D

I prefer 'commercialmas'.

Rapscallion

Lace Neil Singer

12-14-2008, 07:34 PM

Lace was born into and lived in a society that preaches Christmas.
Lace was not born in a region where Christmas is considered "odd" (such as much of the Middle East, East Asia, etc).
Lace was born into a household which would have allowed Christmas to be the norm, including the possibility that Lace was born into a Christian household.
Lace later stopped following the practices of the parents, and became an atheist independently.
Lace's parents were not atheists.

As it happens, I was raised a Christian; my mother is Christian and my father allowed my mother to raise my brothers and I as Christian rather than as Jews. I went to church and Sunday School as a child; I celebrated Christmas as a religious festival up til the time when I stopped believing in God, and therefore, after that, it became a secular family occasion for me. However, I don't see why ariana felt she had to make an embittered and spiteful attack on me; maybe she just got out the wrong side of bed that day. I manage to peacefully co-exist around my Christian mother, older brother and sister in law, and my Jewish father, without any problems so yes, it is pertinent to the discussion.

Happy Present Day, everyone. :p