TV going too far for "entertainment"?

[Ree]

I don't watch the TV show, "Nip/Tuck", at least, not since the first season.

It was obvious from the start that they intended to make their show one of the most controversial and most talked about shows on TV, and they planned to do that with some of the most shocking and taboo storylines imaginable.

I just finished reading an article discussing their most recent show that depicted self-mutilation. They mentioned that the "Parents Televison Council" has made a complaint about the show. Apparently, this is the same group who complained that NBC had allowed a scene from the Golden Globes to go on air with someone making an acceptance speech and "giving the finger". I am not familiar with this group, as I tend to ignore groups who set themselves up as the moral compass for everyone.

The article was questioning whether the show had gone too far in pursuit of ratings and efforts to stir up controversy.
Having not seen the show, it was difficult to judge.

The website provided a clip of the scene in question.
Taken out of context, it was incredibly shocking and graphic.
If I had seen the whole episode, I could probably have made a more informed decision, but in my opinion, from what I did see, I really think they went too far.

How is this considered entertainment, really?

The storyline related to this scene, as far as I have been able to figure out, is that this is a woman who has lost 2 family members to breast cancer and she wants to have her breasts removed as a preventative measure.

Apparently, the doctors won't do it, so she takes matters into her own hands with an electric carving knife, in the waiting room of the doctor's office.

Again, is this really "entertainment"?

We can always choose not to watch shows such as this, but the thing is, if all shows become more and more graphic and shocking in an effort to outdo the other guy and grab the ratings, and we choose to tune out as an option, what is there left, then?

Why should we have to choose between turning off our TV's or being subjected to graphic violence and storylines designed to shock?

Just how far is too far?

For those who haven't seen the show, I will provide a link to the article with a clip of the scene in question.

BE WARNED!!

The scene is very gory and contains nudity.

http://tvguide.sympatico.msn.ca/TVNews/Articles/090130_niptuck_ptc_outrage_DW

[anriana]

We can always choose not to watch shows such as this, but the thing is, if all shows become more and more graphic and shocking in an effort to outdo the other guy and grab the ratings, and we choose to tune out as an option, what is there left, then?Why should we have to choose between turning off our TV's or being subjected to graphic violence and storylines designed to shock?



Lifetime? Hallmark Channel? Xtian stuff? Children's programming? Discovery? I don't see a future where every tv show is so full of graphic violence and shocking storylines that are too much for you to enjoy watching, but if that does happen, too bad, that's the way the market goes. Why should you get continued production of the Care Bears when every other person wants to watch Owww My Balls!!! ?

[Ree]

Ummm...but what if I happen to enjoy TV dramas?
Yeah, all those shows you mentioned are wonderful, but I love watching crime type dramas.
What if those dramas start following the trend to going for the shock value rather than a great storyline?

What is wrong with standing up and saying to the powers that be that we are sick of the crap?

Why should tuning out or opting for "family" type stuff be our only choice?

Just as you are certain that not every show on TV will follow the trend to shock value crap, I am certain that not everyone wants to watch shit while I get stuck with Care Bears as my only option.

[Ree]

BTW...what is "Xtian stuff"??

[daleduke17]

BTW...what is "Xtian stuff"??

Christian stuff. Some people can't find the ability, apparently, to type the whole word out.

[Ree]

Ah. OK...cool.

I was thinking it was like "X-Files" or something. :p:D

[anriana]

Ummm...but what if I happen to enjoy TV dramas?
Yeah, all those shows you mentioned are wonderful, but I love watching crime type dramas.
What if those dramas start following the trend to going for the shock value rather than a great storyline?

If they start going for that trend it will be because they had one of two options: produce the content that people actually want to see, or not produce it, lose market share, and be cancelled. Either way, if there aren't enough people wanting to watch tame crime dramas, they won't be produced.

What is wrong with standing up and saying to the powers that be that we are sick of the crap?

Did I say that there was something wrong with that? The best way to say that you are sick of the "crap" shows is to stop watching them and instead watch the shows that you do enjoy, not to say that you don't enjoy shows that probably aren't even marketed towards you. All the powers that be care about is money and market share.

Why should tuning out or opting for "family" type stuff be our only choice?

Because the entertainment industry is a business, and if shock tv and family stuff are the only two types of entertainment that sell, they are going to be the only two types that are produced.

Just as you are certain that not every show on TV will follow the trend to shock value crap, I am certain that not everyone wants to watch shit while I get stuck with Care Bears as my only option.

And that probably explains why all of the channels I listed earlier exist.


BTW...what is "Xtian stuff"??

Faux-Christian crap that has nothing to do with actual Christianity.

Christian stuff. Some people can't find the ability, apparently, to type the whole word out.

I wouldn't try and define words when you don't, apparently, have the ability to actually do so.

[Ree]

If they start going for that trend it will be because they had one of two options: produce the content that people actually want to see, or not produce it, lose market share, and be cancelled. Either way, if there aren't enough people wanting to watch tame crime dramas, they won't be produced. But that's my point.
Do people really want to see some woman cutting off her breast with an electric knife?

I don't know if this show had any type of promos prior to the show airing, because, as I said, I don't actually watch it. I don't know if people were prepared for what was shown, but I get the impression that those watching were totally blindsided by that whole scene, based on discussions I have been reading.

Is it accurate to say that they were producing what people actually want to watch, if people didn't know beforehand, and that was not the reason they tuned in to the show?

It's true that it has been no secret from the beginning that this show was designed to push the envelope, but was watching a woman mutilate her own breast what the viewing audience had in mind?

[Greenday]

It's true that it has been no secret from the beginning that this show was designed to push the envelope, but was watching a woman mutilate her own breast what the viewing audience had in mind?

Ree, the show is completely about performing cosmetic surgery and getting laid as a result, at least from the episodes I actually have seen. I'm sure the clip in question wasn't drastically surprising to those who normally watch the show.

[AdminAssistant]

Personally, I'd be more concerned with a scene of doctors not performing a prophylactic masectomy. If a woman finds out she has the gene that predisposes her to breast cancer and wants to get rid of her boobs in order to potentially save her life, then she has that right. But that's not the topic here.

I do agree that television has become more and more about 'shock value'. Even shows like Mythbusters...I don't even watch it that much anymore because it's so blatantly obvious that it's just an excuse to blow something up, which it wasn't in the beginning. And the 'Build Team' is just irritating. My beloved Food Network is quickly turning into a reality TV competition channel (Iron Chef is OK, but show after show of amateur chef wannabes is boring!). Even my dear beloved NCIS has had its moments this season - like the most recent episode that featured disembowelment, something they've actually done before (long ago, Season 1).

[Ree]

Personally, I'd be more concerned with a scene of doctors not performing a prophylactic masectomy. If a woman finds out she has the gene that predisposes her to breast cancer and wants to get rid of her boobs in order to potentially save her life, then she has that right. But that's not the topic here.That may not be what's being discussed, but it does have some bearing on it.

When I first read the recap, I had to wonder about the refusal by the doctors, because I have heard of preventative mastectomies being done before. It's very radical, but not unheard of.

Not having seen the show, it's impossible for me to comment on why this storyline had the doctors denying one to this patient, but I have to think it's so that they could set up this gratuitously gory and shocking scene.

[DesignFox]

Shows like Nip/Tuck are the big reason why I don't bother with TV, anymore.

IF I have the TV on it's only at work (because we sell satellite) and it's constantly tuned to something educational, some kind of cartoon, or some old school shows.

I can't stand this whole new generation of "lets see how much violence and how many boobs we can put on screen, yay!" shit.

[Peppergirl]

That may not be what's being discussed, but it does have some bearing on it.

When I first read the recap, I had to wonder about the refusal by the doctors, because I have heard of preventative mastectomies being done before. It's very radical, but not unheard of.

Not having seen the show, it's impossible for me to comment on why this storyline had the doctors denying one to this patient, but I have to think it's so that they could set up this gratuitously gory and shocking scene.


One of the partners in the practice slept with her, set her up for surgery, then decided at the last minute (correctly) that she should have pre-surgical counseling before proceeding.

So she gets pissed, shows up in the office and...does what she did.

I've been watching the show since its beginning and am not easily shocked.

That said, however, I had to turn away.


And by the way, I'm sure some people think I'm a mental midget to watch such 'drivel', but I kind of enjoy mindless television on occasion. ;)

[Slytovhand]

Well now...

My first thought is that this is a 're-enactment', and thus, there was no real need to do it! (I confess to wondering about the 'nudity' tag...but then, Australia isn't as conservative in that regard!). So, Ree's opener is spot on - shock value.

As for whether it should be done... if a certain beer happens to be popular, then a bar is going to sell it - and get more... as much as they can get to meet demand. In that respect, how many people will tune into something, just to see that shocking thing that's been advertised. Just like magazines that have the latest shocking scandal.

The issue here is Ree's 'we' that she refers to. There's the 'we' who don't like such things, then there's the 'we' that love it - and will make the producers money. 'We' who don't like don't make them money... too bad, so sad.... so humanity needs a culling.

[kibbles]

Honestly, I don't think TV goes far enough sometimes. For me, the best time for TV was in the nineties, it was just far enough out of the "sappy family show eighties" and just far enough away from the "everything gotta be politically correct" 21st century.

Soaps and everything were different in the nineties, and I respect TV shows that still seem to remember that time.

[BlaqueKatt]

BTW...what is "Xtian stuff"??

Christian stuff. Some people can't find the ability, apparently, to type the whole word out.

you're half right Dale-


the x comes from latin and is the latin letter for christ, i.e. x-tian means christ-tian or christian-also why X-mas is an abbreviation for CHRISTmas

Here is how the word "Xtian" breaks down...

1). the "X" in Latin is defined as 'To delete, cancel, or obliterate' (i.e. kill, crush & crucify).

2). the "tian" in Latin means 'to hold, grasp, have'.

So an "Xtian" is a believer who dies to self (gives up everything they hold & have), thru the power of Jesus Christ and radically conforms to His image; a servant/bondservant of Christ. Not by their own power but by submitting everything in their lives to Christ (even if they have to die), for His glory.

[Evandril]

It also depends on the person using it...I use xtian to differentiate between the idiots, and the 'true' Christians...and it's *very* rare that I have any problems with people who actually *FOLLOW* the rules of Christianity. You know, the whole 'Turn the other cheek', 'be kind to your fellow man', 'judge not'...The things that the typical xtian does the exact opposite of ;)

[Ree]

Thanks to everyone for explaining what Xtian meant.

Not to be rude, but can we please get back to the actual intent of this thread, which was to discuss whether TV has gone too far for "entertainment".

There are already plenty of threads debating Christianity, and as a Christian, myself, I would prefer not to have this thread turned into yet another one.

[IDrinkaRum]

Does anyone remember the opening of the movie, "Time Bandits", and the little boy's parents are watching a show called "Your Money or Your Life"? You bet your money and/or your life and if your partner on the show gets the question wrong, you lose either your life or your money. I'm afraid the TV shows are going to progress to that.

I hate reality shows. I love the "sappy 80's shows" and the only shows I watch nowadays are the dramas. No comedies, etc.

*MOD EDIT - Too hard to read black font on dark grey background.

[AdminAssistant]

I don't watch comedies either (okay, I occasionally watch Reba reruns on Lifetime, shhhh). But for the most part I find them stupid and annoying. And not to mention how people are paired up. Geeky guys with hot vapid girls :( Get away from my geeks you idiot! And really hot beautiful women with total schlubs like Kevin James. But never the opposite.

I just stick with my NCIS. *snuggle*

[crazylegs]

I watched the clip, but didn't think it was all that graphic, a lot of what happened actually occurs out of frame and allows your mind to fill in the blanks.

Watch it again and note down what you actually see, there isn't a great deal.

What I think this scene has done is to show how desperate some people are to not get sick that they would undertake this kind of action.

[Boozy]

I watched the clip, but didn't think it was all that graphic, a lot of what happened actually occurs out of frame and allows your mind to fill in the blanks.

I haven't watched the clip because I'm ultra-sensitive to violence.

But sometimes the implied is worse than the clearly shown. Like horror films. They're always scarier before the killer reveals himself.

[PepperElf]

<SHUDDER>
<PUKE>

but hey i did click the link knowing what it was going to be.
tho i have seen worse... (worse only cos it was self mutilation of private parts and NOT fake)


do we have brain bleach here?