Does Atheism count as a religious viewpoint?

[BlaqueKatt]

Exactly. A large part of what I was thinking in this thread is that if you're going to expend a lot of effort making sure they don't put religious propaganda on the buses, you should keep atheist propaganda off as well.

or if they don't ban the religious propaganda-just contact the freedom from religion foundation-they are putting up billboards, and will advertise on buses. Amusingly the only thing their ads have done is make the churches spend more money to advertise. No one has really gotten offended, as the ads are designed to be mostly non-offensive(quotes from founding fathers, that this is not a Christian nation, etc), and the bus company gets more money.

edited to add:

But recently one of my friends has been trying to get the phrase "God Probably Doesn't Exist, So Just Enjoy Yourself" on the buses.

yeah that might be considered copyright infringement-as it's not an original idea-already done by the German Humanists:

By coincidence, FFRF learned, after starting its ballot, that German humanists are doing the same thing. However, in order to vote at the German site, you have to donate! British Humanists, who took the world by storm by placing bus signs saying, "There's Probably No God. Now Stop Worrying and Enjoy your Life," raised more than $200,000 in a short period last fall through an online campaign

From this article-they are based in Madison, which coincidentally also has the largest congregation of Unitarian Universalists(basicly secular humanists) in the United States

[Rapscallion]

Hmm, the definition of agnostic that I've always gone with is unsurity about whether or not there's a higher being to blame. Atheists are those who say there isn't, and theists are those who say there is.

I rather suspect that agnostics, under those criteria, outnumber the other two even if they were added together

Rapscallion

[Ladeeda]

Agnostics don't believe in God, but are open to the idea of a deity.

Yeah, that sounded like what Rapscallion was describing to me.

[Arcade Man D]

Agnostics don't believe in God, but are open to the idea of a deity.

"Oh no! We're being picketed by Agnostics!"


"Say maybe to God!"


Sorry, had to think of Metalocalypse from that.

[Nyoibo]

I think that's Agnostic, actually. Someone who doesn't believe or not believe in a Higher Power.

Agnostics don't believe in God, but are open to the idea of a deity.

[Ladeeda]

My bad - I read the title and went straight in.

So, atheism itself is a lack of belief in a supernatural being(s). However, there are people who describe themselves as atheists because they have very clear cut ideas about how the world is, just as there are religious people who have clear cut ideas. What about the average person in the street who doesn't particularly believe in anything, just goes about his or her business day to day, and doesn't even think about it? Such a person would be an atheist, but not have a religious viewpoint, since it would be something they hadn't really bothered with.

Am I making sense? I'm doing the overly much overtime thing right now.

Rapscallion

I think that's Agnostic, actually. Someone who doesn't believe or not believe in a Higher Power.

[Hyena Dandy]

For me, that's the whole point of the thread. I suppose if they don't put on atheism propoganda, they should make sure that religious propoganda is banned as well, as well as accepting adverts from politicians.

Rapscallion

Exactly. A large part of what I was thinking in this thread is that if you're going to expend a lot of effort making sure they don't put religious propaganda on the buses, you should keep atheist propaganda off as well.

[Rapscallion]

But... if they allow one form of private advertising, are they then in a position to dictate what does and doesn't go on?

For me, that's the whole point of the thread. I suppose if they don't put on atheism propoganda, they should make sure that religious propoganda is banned as well, as well as accepting adverts from politicians.

Rapscallion

[Slytovhand]

But... if they allow one form of private advertising, are they then in a position to dictate what does and doesn't go on?

[Hyena Dandy]

I can see where you're coming from. State-run busses shouldn't really have any advertisement on at all, save for other state services. I'm thinking things like adult literacy courses etc. (Yes, I've seen this...)

The reason is that relying on advertising from the commercial sector means that even if the intentions are honourable, any approval of a scheme by the people who advertise, or award of a contract to such, is going to be regarded as suspicious. It also means that the advertising organisation is going to hold some sway over supposedly neutral parties.

Does the advertising you mention count as a religious viewpoint? In that actual format, I'd say 'yes'. I'd say that the state shouldn't allow it (even though I agree with it), but only on the same grounds I'd say they shouldn't allow any advertising on state-run busses.

Rapscallion

I'd agree with you there. There's no way that the MBTA will stop advertising on its buses, though, so I at least want to keep the religious statements off of them.

[Rapscallion]

I can see where you're coming from. State-run busses shouldn't really have any advertisement on at all, save for other state services. I'm thinking things like adult literacy courses etc. (Yes, I've seen this...)

The reason is that relying on advertising from the commercial sector means that even if the intentions are honourable, any approval of a scheme by the people who advertise, or award of a contract to such, is going to be regarded as suspicious. It also means that the advertising organisation is going to hold some sway over supposedly neutral parties.

Does the advertising you mention count as a religious viewpoint? In that actual format, I'd say 'yes'. I'd say that the state shouldn't allow it (even though I agree with it), but only on the same grounds I'd say they shouldn't allow any advertising on state-run busses.

Rapscallion

[Hyena Dandy]

My bad - I read the title and went straight in.

So, atheism itself is a lack of belief in a supernatural being(s). However, there are people who describe themselves as atheists because they have very clear cut ideas about how the world is, just as there are religious people who have clear cut ideas. What about the average person in the street who doesn't particularly believe in anything, just goes about his or her business day to day, and doesn't even think about it? Such a person would be an atheist, but not have a religious viewpoint, since it would be something they hadn't really bothered with.

Am I making sense? I'm doing the overly much overtime thing right now.

Rapscallion

Yes, while that wasn't the point of the post. The point was does the statement "God probably doesn't exist, so just relax" on a bus count against separation of church and state. I was saying yes, because it endorses a viewpoint.

[machinest]

I think what you are describing is labeled as an apathist ,no clear thought on whether or not god exists and no real need to form one

[Rapscallion]

My bad - I read the title and went straight in.

So, atheism itself is a lack of belief in a supernatural being(s). However, there are people who describe themselves as atheists because they have very clear cut ideas about how the world is, just as there are religious people who have clear cut ideas. What about the average person in the street who doesn't particularly believe in anything, just goes about his or her business day to day, and doesn't even think about it? Such a person would be an atheist, but not have a religious viewpoint, since it would be something they hadn't really bothered with.

Am I making sense? I'm doing the overly much overtime thing right now.

Rapscallion

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Athiesm, while not a religion, is a religious or spiritual viewPOINT. It is a personal philosophy regarding a creator spirit. It comes up in religious discussions and context.

Therefore, if saying that God exists is a religious viewpoint and therefore has no place on the sides of state run busses, then your friend is mistaken in her belief that saying that He doesn't does have a place there.

Just because it's something she wants to do does not make it right. If her stance is that personal spiritual beliefs should not be displayed in public places, then displaying hers there is just plain hypocritical.

To the point of being over the top, it's hypocritical.

She can circulate anything she wants, nobody is going to touch this with a ten foot pole. You don't get to run whatever you want just because you pay. You have to find someone who will carry your advert. Nobody will touch that message, it would be a huge can of worms regardless of the bus owners' personal view. It is the sort of thing that would run off OTHER advertisers.


I would submit to you that your friend likes the idea of being contentious and provacative and has a bone to pick. She probably ought to grow up and concern herself more with her own affairs and not with what strangers believe.