should the LDS church lose it's tax excempt status

[Fryk]

Here's a thought about all these churches closing...

Why do they even need buildings like that in the first place? I don't remember anything mentioned anywhere in the Book of Acts along the lines of...

"And, Lo, the believers did come together and build a church building with pretty windows and hard wooden benches that were uncomfortable on the ass..."

Nope, the early churches just met in their homes or in open areas. If a church BUILDING has to close, why does that mean that the group of believers HAS to evaporate?

And if the churches want to dabble in politics, I dyslexically tell them "No representation without taxation."

[bunnyboy]

as a complete off topic, that just reminded me of a very active member of the church I used to know who always complained that there were too many no-mos, ex-mos, and ho-mos in Salt Lake LOL

mmmm ho-mos....


and wow, reminded you of that from just saying ex-mo? *facepalm*

[smileyeagle1021]

(for those who aren't an ex-mo,
.

as a complete off topic, that just reminded me of a very active member of the church I used to know who always complained that there were too many no-mos, ex-mos, and ho-mos in Salt Lake LOL

[bunnyboy]

That's all organizations, not just religious ones.
Get a group of people together, and greed will win out.

Personally I don't like tax exempt status for any religious organization. Every business, and that's what they are, should pay taxes.

I agree with that, but the point I was trying to make is that yes they would suddenly have that revelation, and fly in the face of previous revelations because they were about to lose it... buuuuuuut they'd still do it in theory rather than practice (try to find one of the few "sons of cain" (for those who aren't an ex-mo, read person of African descent) and see what the highest position they hold, or ask them which tribe they are...)

To put it bluntly, I agree all religions should be taxed like everyone else, hell most would pay nothing due to the fact that they are humanitarian and donate quite a bit of resources.

And as for the sons of cain thing, guess what led me down the road to first doubting ANY sort of truth of a certain church...

[Boozy]

Actually, that's a fair point. The Church of England certainly used to be the biggest land owner in the UK, probably still is.

The one good thing I'll say about churches being property tax exempt is that it allows them to set up in areas with high land value. It allows people who live in the downtown core of their city to have a church a few blocks away from them, instead of having to drive out to the suburbs where land is cheaper. Some churches can afford the property taxes in high-density areas, but many can't, especially if their congregation is poor.

[PepperElf]

but some churches basically have no profits
other than paying perhaps a small number of staff, like a secretary or the organist

in fact, for my faith, the only time i've ever seen a church that wasn't in some state of low funds was the church on the military base since the heat & electricity are supplied by the base.

however in that instance, i believe the priests and pastors might be paying taxes on their income since they're pulling military Officer pay.

[Rapscallion]

So you would want them to play the same deceitful games that many rich people and companies do to avoid paying real taxes?

If we allow businesses to get away with it, why shouldn't we allow churches to? They provide a range of services for money tendered - can't see the difference.

Property taxes are levied according to the value of the land and would apply whether or not the building is a non-profit, a home, or a business. Except for churches.

Actually, that's a fair point. The Church of England certainly used to be the biggest land owner in the UK, probably still is. I was more thinking of income.

In the UK, though, local authorities have tax-collecting abilities and not the national government (unless they vote them in for themselves), and they base this on rentable value (or certainly used to). Would certainly hurt the institution.

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

If taxed like a business, they'd only pay taxes on 'profits'.

Property taxes are levied according to the value of the land and would apply whether or not the building is a non-profit, a home, or a business. Except for churches.

[Flyndaran]

If taxed like a business, they'd only pay taxes on 'profits'.

Rapscallion

So you would want them to play the same deceitful games that many rich people and companies do to avoid paying real taxes?

I'm an atheist, so I don't see churches as performing any service other than brainwashing. SOME churches perform charitable acts, but that is far from universal and there are many secular chartiable organizations.
I have to single out The United Christian Children's Fund as deserving of special consideration as they don't hold back. They use 80% of all donated funds for the children.... Though I wonder if they spend any of that money on unnecessary bible "schooling".

[Rapscallion]

If taxed like a business, they'd only pay taxes on 'profits'.

Rapscallion

[PepperElf]

i've already stated my opinions on whether or not a church should be tax-free over supporting or not supporting prop 8


as for a church's tax-free status in general... no i don't feel churches and religious groups should be taxed.


i understand the opinions against this tax-free status. there are many faiths out there where the pastor lives an extravagant life with a new car each year and a trophy wife. and for something like that... yeah i can understand wanting them to start paying taxes on the income


but then i look at the church my family goes to. they're already in debt up to their eyeballs, and most of this debt is what they owe for the main diocese on loans to cover the heat & electricity.

and... regardless of people's opinions on the worth of religion, this church provides an even more important service to the community now. it's the only church in miles... (and it's the first i've ever personally seen) that actually offers specific services for the disabled: the new head pastor is fluent in sign language and always does at least one Mass each weekend in sign-language.


so the idea of taxing this already fund-strapped church... would make me sad. i am pretty sure this church would have to close.


and i also feel... the government takes too much of everyone's money for their own pet-projects as it is.

[Flyndaran]

I'd say, if it involves needing politicians having to do something involving laws, that'd be a fair definition of "political." And to be fair, I'd have nothing against the individual members of the church banding together to do something with their own money, but it'd need to be without church funds, and without orders from the clergy.

That would be the minimum I would demand.

[BroomJockey]

Question - who is to decide what is political and therefore should be untouched by church funding?

Rapscallion

I'd say, if it involves needing politicians having to do something involving laws, that'd be a fair definition of "political." And to be fair, I'd have nothing against the individual members of the church banding together to do something with their own money, but it'd need to be without church funds, and without orders from the clergy.

[Rapscallion]

Question - who is to decide what is political and therefore should be untouched by church funding?

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

so... what about churches that poured their funds into opposing prop 8?

as i mentioned before... the law has to apply to everyone

I don't want any type of business, except pure charities, to get preferential treatment even when they agree with me.
Heck, I don't trust any group to consistently agree with me, so why should I give them special status on the rare occasions they do?