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Let me go give them a read and I'll get back to you on that. I don't want you to think I'm ignoring the question, I just don't know how to answer off the top of my head.
LATER: Okay, I'm sitting here with a Good News New Testament in my hands.
Corinthians: I found nothing specific on homosexuality, but Paul seems extremely aghast about hearing about a guy getting it on with his stepmother. He goes on a little tirade against general sexual immorality, but if he mentions homosexuality specifically, I can't find it. He also, at one point, admits that he has no "word from God" about any of this, but he considers his opinion one we can trust and says as much.
Keep in mind Paul was a bit uptight and had to be reigned in more than once. One of the great frustrations in Jesus's life, it would seem, was the failure of his apostles to "get it." Am I suggesting that his word is no good? Absolutely not. I AM suggesting that he was a man, just like any man, and he is subject to his own opionions and ideas.
Timothy: I dunno, I see the name "Timothy" and I kind of cringe a little. First Timothy is littered with the phrase "I would prefer" (that women remain silent in church, that young widows marry, that married men stay married and that single ones stay single, etc. ) This really isn't about what Timothy prefers. Not only that, but the cat is seriously judgemental. I take this chapter with a grain of salt.
Romans: Paul again. He DOES mention homosexuality, but doesn't rail on is specifically. He goes on to say "woman perverting their sex, men having passion for one another, etc. is bad." I would read that to say he is not happy with any form of sexual deviance at all, and lumps it in with thievery, lying, ethical corruption, etc. We know that someone who likes to give BJs is not automatically a theif. He says immoral people will get punished by God.
He then goes on in the VERY NEXT SECTION to say that judgment against such people is wrong, and since we all are sinners, to do so brings judgement down on the head of the person doing the judging. I didn't actually spot the word "hypocrisy" but I believe that that is what he was getting at.
It boils down to Jesus saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Paul might be a tad misogynistic and uptight but it would appear from this passage that he, at least, "gets it."
I didn't get to Jude yet.
I will say this: Even if Paul said "Burn gays at the stake!" it would still be overridden by Jesus saying "Love thy neighbor as thyself." and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
If it's wrong, let God judge. If I'm wrong, God will judge me, too. And I hope he will consider, if he does, that my "sin" (according to some of these fundies) is my refusal to judge and hate.
LATER: Okay, I'm sitting here with a Good News New Testament in my hands.
Corinthians: I found nothing specific on homosexuality, but Paul seems extremely aghast about hearing about a guy getting it on with his stepmother. He goes on a little tirade against general sexual immorality, but if he mentions homosexuality specifically, I can't find it. He also, at one point, admits that he has no "word from God" about any of this, but he considers his opinion one we can trust and says as much.
Keep in mind Paul was a bit uptight and had to be reigned in more than once. One of the great frustrations in Jesus's life, it would seem, was the failure of his apostles to "get it." Am I suggesting that his word is no good? Absolutely not. I AM suggesting that he was a man, just like any man, and he is subject to his own opionions and ideas.
Timothy: I dunno, I see the name "Timothy" and I kind of cringe a little. First Timothy is littered with the phrase "I would prefer" (that women remain silent in church, that young widows marry, that married men stay married and that single ones stay single, etc. ) This really isn't about what Timothy prefers. Not only that, but the cat is seriously judgemental. I take this chapter with a grain of salt.
Romans: Paul again. He DOES mention homosexuality, but doesn't rail on is specifically. He goes on to say "woman perverting their sex, men having passion for one another, etc. is bad." I would read that to say he is not happy with any form of sexual deviance at all, and lumps it in with thievery, lying, ethical corruption, etc. We know that someone who likes to give BJs is not automatically a theif. He says immoral people will get punished by God.
He then goes on in the VERY NEXT SECTION to say that judgment against such people is wrong, and since we all are sinners, to do so brings judgement down on the head of the person doing the judging. I didn't actually spot the word "hypocrisy" but I believe that that is what he was getting at.
It boils down to Jesus saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Paul might be a tad misogynistic and uptight but it would appear from this passage that he, at least, "gets it."
I didn't get to Jude yet.
I will say this: Even if Paul said "Burn gays at the stake!" it would still be overridden by Jesus saying "Love thy neighbor as thyself." and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
If it's wrong, let God judge. If I'm wrong, God will judge me, too. And I hope he will consider, if he does, that my "sin" (according to some of these fundies) is my refusal to judge and hate.
And I think they are missing the point of it.
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