Community payback jackets

[Boozy]

Personally, if I were going through an area, I'd prefer to know if it was prison inmates hanging out by the side of the road as opposed to people just being charitable.

But then again, I suppose the prison inmates would have some sort of uniformed officer nearby, so it probably doesn't make much of a difference.

These are not inmates. These are people doing community service. A court has already determined that they are not a danger to society, but they have to repay their debt somehow. These are mostly folks who have been picked up for possession of marijuana, unpaid parking tickets, public drunkenness, etc.

And I have never heard of a uniformed officer being present at community service litter pickups and the like. It's usually just a representative of the court, like a clerk, there to make sure everyone is accounted for and stays the whole time.

[DesignFox]

Oh ok Boozy. I'd say that's a bit different of a situation then.

I don't think it's really necessary to humiliate those people by writing OFFENDER in big letters on their jackets, then. I mean, really, the only reason to do that would be to let other people know that those people aren't out there out of the goodness of their hearts; they are being punished.

But for minor offenses, I don't see the point. Let them serve their time and leave them be. Maybe after a certain point, they WILL do the work for the sake of doing something nice.

[powerboy]

They should have to wear a uniform. It is no different than work uniform.

[Flyndaran]

It seems like people are arguing about separate issues.
Uniforms vs. "humilation jackets", and dangerous criminals vs. minor offense criminals.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Most of these people know about what's in store for them if they break the law, tho. It would be like breaking the speed limit and then whining about how the fine you have to pay, plus the licience penalty points, is degrading. Or even about the article in the paper after the court case where your antisocial behaviour is described. You did the crime, so just suck it up; and be thankful that you're not wearing prison uniform.

[tabbyblack13]

I have no problem with these people wearing the "offender" vests. Its something they should think about before they behave in a way that might get them arrested. Sometimes humiliation is the perfect punishment for a person. A rich person doesn't care about the extra money a ticket will cost them but if someone sees them with that jacket on they will think twice about doing it again.

[Flyndaran]

Speaking as someone with severe anxiety and social phobia, this kind of punishment would NOT have the effect intended.
It would be so grossly unfair as to make me so humiliated as to want to enact revenge against those that did it. It sure as hell wouldn't make me think about my actions. It would have the same effect that torturing me as suspected terrorist would, ie. the exact opposite.

Well, I'm not normal you might say. Yes, I'm not, but I don't think the normal punishments would need as much scrutiny for unfair persecution. I don't think judges should also be experts at psychology. Right now, they sure as heck aren't. They aren't paid to play mind games.

[BroomJockey]

They aren't paid to play mind games.

Again, you say "mind game," I say "uniform."

[Flyndaran]

Again, you say "mind game," I say "uniform."

A uniform is not required to have offender or specific crime listed to be a uniform. A simple orange colored jumpsuit is sufficient with maybe a property of specific police department in small letters.

[BroomJockey]

A uniform is not required to have offender or specific crime listed to be a uniform.

I double-checked the article to be sure, but it doesn't say anywhere on it what crimes have been committed. As for "offender," uniforms are coded to make status levels apparent at a glance. You can tell manager from register jockey. You even have different departments. It's showing your place in the hierarchy of the organization, emblazoned large over your chest. That's what these jackets do, as well. They show someone's place in the hierarchy of the community. And just like a work uniform, you take it off when you're going home. And there is a hierarchy. Until you've paid your debt as handed down by a judge, you're restricted of certain rights and freedoms. That places you lower than someone currently enjoying unfettered rights and freedoms. It's the basic premise of the criminal justice system, otherwise you'd not be able to imprison someone as punishment.

[Flyndaran]

I double-checked the article to be sure, but it doesn't say anywhere on it what crimes have been committed. As for "offender," uniforms are coded to make status levels apparent at a glance. You can tell manager from register jockey. You even have different departments. It's showing your place in the hierarchy of the organization, emblazoned large over your chest. That's what these jackets do, as well. They show someone's place in the hierarchy of the community. And just like a work uniform, you take it off when you're going home. And there is a hierarchy. Until you've paid your debt as handed down by a judge, you're restricted of certain rights and freedoms. That places you lower than someone currently enjoying unfettered rights and freedoms. It's the basic premise of the criminal justice system, otherwise you'd not be able to imprison someone as punishment.

Other than your use of lower which I don't like as sounding too much like a moral judgement, I'm okay with what you wrote.

[BroomJockey]

Other than your use of lower,

Actually, you're right about it being wrong word choice, since I don't think criminals are "less human" or anything like that. It was just the first word that sprang to finger.

[Flyndaran]

Actually, you're right about it being wrong word choice, since I don't think criminals are "less human" or anything like that. It was just the first word that sprang to finger.

I thought as much, but I've been proven wrong so often when assuming..

[Slytovhand]

I'd like to ditto what Lace said... it's another form of punishment, which is put in place as a deterrent. Fines?? Meh, often people don't really care (either, they don't pay them, or they do and whinge and whine and say it's 'wrong'... and don't actually address the behaviour in the first place).

Greenday, I don't see how doing community service is suddenly (or slowly... but let's hope not!) instill in the offender the love of society to the extent that they'll see the light and become all good and recalcitrant.

Some years ago, I did community service (cop reckons I ran a stop sign.. I disagreed, went to court, lost note to self: never use the term 'think'... use the term 'know'.. it dispels any possible doubt in the magistrate's mind!) The place I did community service was a volunteer centre which had a lot of service-workers... some even showed up! Bright orange jacket?? Why not? That's what I was there for... so, may as well be honest. Would any there think less of me for it? Probably not... after all, this was a centre for people who were doing it tough.

Not that I read it, but does it anywhere indicate that this is intended as a first time punishment? Or for what sort of 'crimes'? Drunk driving was mentioned... personally - great! They need to be shamed and humiliated!!! (but, that's actually beside the point..).

Flyn, while such a punishment (and let's not forget that this is what it is - a punishment... not a picnic) may not be good for you, the same can be said for virtually any form of judgements... nothing works 100% of the time for 100% of the population.

[Flyndaran]

...
Flyn, while such a punishment (and let's not forget that this is what it is - a punishment... not a picnic) may not be good for you, the same can be said for virtually any form of judgements... nothing works 100% of the time for 100% of the population.

Yeah, I was afraid that my intrerpretation might be too far off the beaten path of viewpoints. My near agoraphobia would also prevent me from breaking such laws in the first place.
Maybe it's also my instinctive distaste for authority that's making me overly critical.