You don't have a degree so your not educated

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Ah, I was just saying calculus for the sake of the conversation. I couldn't pass ANY math. I didn't really think I needed math at all...and my adult life and chosen career path has pretty much validated that belief...so it was particularly vexing to me that THAT of all things was what ultimately kept me from graduating.

One problem I know a lot of dycalculics are running into now are incompetent testers who refuse to give them a positive diagnoses because "well, he just tests too high in everything else, he simply CAN'T have a learning disability."

When you consider that the biggest red flag and diagnostic tool is the disparity between the student's intelligence and high testing in every other subject, that statement is particularly rich.

We still have a ways to go. But it is better.

And thank you for the kind words.

[guywithashovel]

In college I took three math courses: Algebra, Finite Math, and Intro to Statistics. I managed to do okay in them, but statistics gave me quite a few headaches. Interestingly, I did end up using statistics in my research classes, but I had very little trouble with it in those classes. Maybe I just lucked out and found myself at a cool college, but most of the professors there were pretty helpful. If you worked hard and put forth effort, you would usually at the very least pass their classes. The girl who used to cut my hair went to college there, and she had a biology class that gave her and a few classmates a lot of headaches, and the prof told them several times that he would help them through it if they put forth the effort.

When I was in high school, my Pre-Calculus teacher told us that if we went for a four year degree, we'd more likely than not have to take Calculus. I ended up avoiding it, but maybe most other people don't.

On a side note, my mom has a lot of trouble with math, too. She even has a hard time with the problems like

6 + x = 23

4x + 12 = 24

I think that I or my sister tried to explain them to her one time, but it never sank in.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I can do the first one if I count the invisible dots (I count invisible dots...or fingers...have to or I can't even add small numbers).

The second one completely baffles me. WTF is that?

Okay, no wait. I just looked at the first one again and tried to work it. No luck. End number is too big and I can't keep track. I would need paper to do that one.

Your mom might be like me.

[gremcint]

6 + x = 23
6 + x - 6 = 23 - 6
x = 17

4x + 12 = 24
4x + 12 - 12 = 24 - 12
4x = 12
4x/4 = 12/4
x = 12/4
x = 3

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Are you trying to trigger an seizure?

[jackfaire]

I love math god Finite Mathematics rocked my world. The prof would show his work not necessarily to show us all the steps though that was part of it but also because he knew he would screw up the small details like a plus sign where there should be a minus sign.

I have thought about getting a math book and doing problems out of it for fun because when I solve a problem I get this big rush.

[Slytovhand]

...and the ability to spin out a breathtaking line of bullshit without even breaking a sweat...

the fine art of spinning out some flawless bullshit.

Yeah, I'd noticed that!

I'm doing my Master's degree in Applied Linguistics... amd I smart? (well, as it happens, yes ) But, trust me, most people could do it! It's only about reading, making an opinion, and then presenting it in an essay... not rocket science.

While some of the sentiments towards university degrees is that they are indicative of a level of smarts, universities are, in some ways, lowering their standards for who they will take - and what it takes to pass.

Also, the thread is on 'education' - not smarts. By definition, a university educated person should be more educated than a non-university educated person... not a lot of people choose to educate themselves outside of formal tuition. (*'university' in this example merely referring to any form of tertiary education). Reading technical journals is not the same as actually doing the subject in uni... for one thing, how do you know you've really understood it correctly without some form of testing? (but refer back to my 2nd point on entrance and marking).

Education =\= intelligence!

[jackfaire]

how do you know you've really understood it correctly without some form of testing? !

You test yourself by seeking out "experts" in those fields and discussing your thoughts and ideas with them.

Personally I would love to be able to submit papers to psychology publications and have my work seriously reviewed instead of discounted because I don't have a Phd next to my name. (I haven't tried yet just putting out a hypothetical)

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yeah, I'd noticed that!

!

Hey, sugar, don't knock it, it's gotten me some good jobs!

[jackfaire]

Hey, sugar, don't knock it, it's gotten me some good jobs!

When I was a kid I would practice BSing adults.

[AdminAssistant]

Personally I would love to be able to submit papers to psychology publications and have my work seriously reviewed instead of discounted because I don't have a Phd next to my name. (I haven't tried yet just putting out a hypothetical)

That's simply a matter of competition. In order to submit to peer-reviewed academic journals, you pretty much either have to be 1) a Ph.D. (or equivalent), 2) a Ph.D. candidate (or equivalent), or 3) a freakin' super genius with a strong reputation in the field. There are Ph.D. candidates that are knocking down the doors of journals to get published, so why would these journals take work from those without that level of education?

Not only that, but writing journal articles is a very specific skill set. If you wanted to write an article/publishable paper, you would need to have, at minimum, two-three other experts in your field review the article to let you know what revisions you need to make. I can ask my professors to review my work. Someone not in an academic program probably won't have that kind of support system.

[jackfaire]

Someone not in an academic program probably won't have that kind of support system.

Yeah and I am trying to get back into school but there are time and money constraints I have to deal with. One of which is my back rent I have to get my bills all caught up before I can even think of school. I will make it though I don't care how much time it takes I will have my PhD someday. I promised my dad.

[AdminAssistant]

I will make it though I don't care how much time it takes I will have my PhD someday. I promised my dad.

It's a good long-term goal and requires a lot of patience. The good thing is that once you get to the graduate level, many programs offer research/teaching assistantships that provide various levels of financial support. Sometimes it's just tuition waivers, sometimes it's a small salary.

I'm working on my Ph.D., so if you have any questions, I'm happy to offer advice!

[EricKei]

To take that and reverse it, I absolutely love this commercial

That's so wonderful

In my personal experiences, I have never discounted someone's intelligence based upon their formal education. My riding instructor is one of the most sensible people I know and she did not go to college. My father is one of the most successful people I know. He's owned his own business since shortly after graduating high school. You don't need the degree to prove you're smart or to make something of yourself.

It has always been my theory that places use the "degree" thing as a filter to cut down on the number of apps received.

Does a tertiary level degree make you any more intelligent/smarter/a better worker/more competent at your job/ able to function in real life. No it does not.
...
Then there is the debate between formal education and "the school of hard knocks". I believe that someone who has to work their way up from the bottom will usually have a MUCH better understanding of the limits and abilities of those underneath them. Someone who waltzes in with a degree or higher can be utterly useless because they don't understand how things work in real life versus in theory.

One of the old saws in my hometown is this: When somebody here asks you "What school did you go to?", they are NOT talking about your college/uni -- they mean what high school. Granted, that's as far as many of us got , and I think part of it is the fact that many of our better schools are actually tougher than some colleges, especially the ones in this state (work that would have earned an A-B average at many high schools was maybe a high C at mine). As a result, many of our old-school, successful local businesses are ones which were started by people who have never even set foot upon a college campus.

Education =\= intelligence!

But seriously, to look DOWN on someone and discount their opinion based on their schooling? That's bullshit.

Agreed 100%, to both.

My roommate seems to hold the firm belief that this can never be true. He's a smart guy, I'll grant him that -- but I figured out how smart he was by talking to him, not by seeing what he was studying. The thing is, his view of intelligence is very simple: If you studied/have a degree in certain fields, then you are automatically smarter than anyone who has not studied that field. His example that he loves to use is "Physics". Three guesses what he studied in college. I will grant that smart people often pursue scientific degrees, but I would argue that this does NOT mean "science make you smart" (which seems to be his position), but rather, "being smart facilitates scientific study".

--------------

I've encountered the "over-qualified" thing, too. I was recently in search of a retail job to supplement my current one, which has become increasingly hours-deficient. A friend at a big-box store helped to get my resume "noticed", but the HR people there never got back to me at all. When she was finally able to get an answer out of them, they were concerned about me "wanting too much money", even tho what I'm making (per hour) where I am now was within the range they offer to experienced people seeking jobs at that level, and the fact that she told them (at my request) that I would accept whatever pay rate I was offered. >_<

[jackfaire]

I am the only one of my current friends who has even been to college. The friends I made in college continued on while I dropped out. Sometimes I feel like I am stuck between two worlds. People who think college is a waste of time and people who went. It gets lonely.