"You're All Sexist." (bit long)

[ralerin]

(I hope this is the right place for it, please move if it's not?)

Continuing this thread over here.

Copy/Paste: Yes, ladies and gents. Apparently, F thinks that we're all sexist at Aid of Rite for making him be on the register most of the time he's in, making all the boys do the outside trash at night, making the boys fill the cooler and take the paper products off the high shelves in the back.

F was so upset by the fact that he was stuck up front while I was learning how to create price tags for the beer and cashier A1 was doing the magazines, that he called cashier A1 a bitch to her face and told manager A that he was going to do everything he could to make her day miserable, including being rude to her face. He then whined that we are all sexist.

Needless to say Not So Awesome Manager pulled F into the office and told him to go the hell home. So F did.

The problem with F is that he doesn't listen, texts while behind the register (big fat no no) leaves the registers unattended and doesn't want to learn how to do other stuff. Therefore, when he's stuck doing boring jobs like being up front, he complains that we don't let him do anything.

Also: R, Ih and M fill the coolers and do the outside trash regularly because duh, going out to the back of the building at night if you're a woman is asking for trouble, especially since the area we're in isn't known for being that safe. The others don't mind it, it's just F who whines. And there's 75% women and only 25% men who work at the store. Duh the heavier tasks are going to fall to the men. Other women pull their weight too, literally, but if it's beyond their strength, the men get called it.

I was going to add this morning in reply to Pedersen (but the thread got closed obviously) that yes, that is a sexist attitude to have to make all the men do all the dirty work. But I also pointed out that other women pull their weight too, namely managers S1 and S2, SM as well. Sometimes, especially for me and coworker S and N, it's easier to call one of the men to grab something for us really quick off one of the top shelves (since my 5 foot height isn't good for reaching things) or carry something that we can't. Recently, R helped me carry a nail polish shelving unit to its proper place. It was easily as long as I was tall and 50 pounds. I tried helping by carrying one end, he wasn't having it and carried the entire thing by himself. Believe me when I thanked him profusely.

F is capable of pulling his own weight, don't get me wrong. If any of the men have problems carrying stuff, they call us to help them and that's ok, I'm happy to help anyone in any way I can. But I resent F's attitude-that we're all sexist for making HIM do ALL the heavy work ALL the time and that he gets stuck at the register. Being at the register is somehow something that only us "chicks" are able to do. I know F hates being there; it's obvious by the fact that he wanders off to chat with Ih and R and M and manager J and whoever. (I hate being at the register too, I get that but I don't text and don't leave the register to go chat, I do my job and that is to be pleasant and nice and ring customers out) But Manager A wanted him there so I could learn how to price beer and A1 could do her magazines. (Plus I'm also Manager A's unofficial pet...a position that I do not covet by any means but them's the breaks). F wanted to be an asshole, he got to be an asshole and Manager A got upset because her good workers and herself were called bitches and lazy to their faces.

[jackfaire]

I have seen situations where women were being sexist, not saying this is one nor defending the guy, but if a guy pointed it out he would get jumped on for being a "typical sexist male".

For example me and my friend broke down we had to push the car while our female friend rode in the car. After we got it to a safe place me and my friend ran back and forth the 2 blocks to repeatedly make phone calls trying to get help.

After that we walked about 5 minutes with girl now walking too. Our friends who were from the party we had been headed to came and got her but refused us rides I asked why she got one, "Because she is a girl and can't handle all that work."

When I pointed out that very sexist attitude I was told I was being a sexist jerk.

Just saying there are times when sexism is present but us guys are not ever allowed to point it out or we are automatically being sexist assholes.

[protege]

I always find it amazing when people act like assholes...and then attempt to play the race card, the sex card, the gay card, etc. when they get called out on it. Sorry asshole, but you getting reamed out was because you were acting like an asshole. It has nothing to do with your skin color, sexuality, or gender. All you're doing is cheapening people who *are* getting shit on because of those things.

In fact, I got to see a similar situation happen when I worked at camp. The camp director was white, J--the asshole (for lack of a better word) happened to be black. J had a well-deserved reputation for being lazy. He was constantly mouthing off to the director, and couldn't understand why he was on her shit list.

Needless to say, he found himself out of a job mid-way through the summer. Seems he was caught napping in the dining hall, when he was supposed to be helping at the arts-and-crafts tables. Director came down on him, and said that if it happened again, he'd get canned. J went ballistic, and claimed it was because of his race

By then, the director was furious. As in, she nearly hit the ceiling In fact, she literally ripped him a new one, and said if there were any more fuck-ups (her word), he'd get fired.

Things settled down a few days, but it wasn't to last. J decided it would be funny to dump several large cans of paint all over the arts-and-crafts area--the tables, floor, the surrounding plants, etc. all turned white. This time, he couldn't weasel out of it--he got caught!

Several of us saw him do it...and he was fired. As usual, he claimed "racial persecution," and threatened to sue. But, nothing ever came of it--he was the only one with white paint on his hands, and the rest of us had statements over what he'd done. What was even more interesting, is that the other black kid on the staff...had said that J was being an ass, and his race had nothing to do with it

[McDreidel09]

I hate how my place of work does it.

Say for example, I'm up front and am the person who floats around and does random tasks. There is a heavy lifting job that needs to be done, but I am pretty strong (the strongest woman at my workplace ah thank you!), they tell me to take one of the guys out from their job and have them do it!

Or if it's all women working and some heavy lifting needs to be done, I will try and do it, but they stop me and say "Oh no honey. Wait for one of the guys to show up. They can do it."

Being a household of just women and having to be the person to do the heavy lifting, I just do it anyway.

They never have women do maintenance, even though I told them I was interested in learning maintenance so I could be available for any job. They never have the women empty out the vats.

What your place of work does sounds pretty equal. What I get from what you say, the men and women work equally in the store. The men help the women IF they can't handle it. I wish my bosses had that attitude.

[Greenday]

I dunno. Based on reading the original thread, the original post made it seem like ONLY men take out the trash, carry stuff, etc. And if that was the case...then yes, I'd consider that sexist.

[IDrinkaRum]

When I worked at Roy Rogers, I had to pull my weight (carrying heavy bags of melted ice cream/shake stuff, buckets of ice, etc.). However, the guys who were not only managers, but also co-workers would tell me all the time to get them. They'd fuss at me like little old hens. (Mainly it was because if I wasn't up front near the registers, they were afraid of having a customer leave, thus losing a sale).

At the Gaming Store, the guys would absolutely insist on doing things for me (like carrying the heavy drinks on flimsy cardboard trays to the front so I can put away the sodas). Heck, I'd have customers helping me. I never thought they were sexist. I always thought they were helpful. I always thanked them. But I suppose that is just me.

None of the guys @ either stores complained about doing the heavy lifting or being the ones that "did that stuff" all the time.

[McDreidel09]

Other women pull their weight too, literally, but if it's beyond their strength, the men get called it.[/i]

I was going to add this morning in reply to Pedersen (but the thread got closed obviously) that yes, that is a sexist attitude to have to make all the men do all the dirty work. But I also pointed out that other women pull their weight too, namely managers S1 and S2, SM as well. Sometimes, especially for me and coworker S and N, it's easier to call one of the men to grab something for us really quick off one of the top shelves (since my 5 foot height isn't good for reaching things) or carry something that we can't. Recently, R helped me carry a nail polish shelving unit to its proper place. It was easily as long as I was tall and 50 pounds. I tried helping by carrying one end, he wasn't having it and carried the entire thing by himself. Believe me when I thanked him profusely.

These parts made me believe that the men and women in the OP's store pull their own weight, but the men help out if the woman is taking more than she can handle.

[jackfaire]

None of the guys @ either stores complained about doing the heavy lifting or being the ones that "did that stuff" all the time.

A couple of factors go into this. If the person is just being helpful it is not sexist if the person is doing parts of your job for you because they feel you are just a girl and can't do them that is sexist.

My only issue would be if rather than go for the nearest person that could reach the shelf or lift the heavy box the person went to the nearest male. If I am busy at the register and the other woman one department over could have reached it for you then please go for her. Espcially if she is 5'10 versus my 5'7 (has happened not at work but at my place during a party my 5'10 female roommate was walked past so that the person could ask me who is 5'7 to get somethin off a shelf I have problems reaching).

[Kheldarson]

See, I had the reverse problem in my first job. One of the guys there refused to let me do anything beyond stand behind the register. Period. It was his job as a guy to do all the heavy lifting. Never mind that I was on track and had to do lifting as part of my training and knew how to lift properly. No, I wasn't allowed to lift boxes or help close the windows. He'd always drag the other guy in the store to help him with those tasks, having guy B abandon whatever task he'd been working on and leaving them unofficially to me >.<

[Boozy]

It was his job as a guy to do all the heavy lifting.

I run into that problem with my husband on occasion. He scolds me when he sees me lifting something even remotely heavy, and makes me give it to him.

It's absurd. I spend my day hauling cases of wine, and I'm in good shape. I'm perfectly able to take out our household trash. Sure, he's still stronger than me, but there's not much that needs getting done around the house that I can't handle.

I do ask him to grab me items from the top shelves in the kitchen. I'm not dragging a stool out from storage when he's standing right there. But any tall person would do in that case. Doesn't need to be a man.

[Seshat]

If there are appropriate lifting/climbing tools handy, then there should be no need to head for the strongest/tallest person to do a job: head for the lifting/climbing tool instead.

If there aren't, then yes, a weaker or shorter person (gender irrelevant) should head for a stronger or taller person (gender irrelevant) if the job is beyond them.

However, if that becomes a regular necessity, then lifting or climbing tools should be provided! I'm sure there's some OHSA regulation stating at what weight lifting tools should be purchased - I have no idea what it is, but I'm sure it'd have to exist.




As for taking things out the back: yes, there are safety issues with women being out the back that don't exist for men; regardless of the woman's size or fighting ability. However, there are also issues with men that there aren't for women - a woman is more likely to be kidnapped and raped, a man more likely to be attacked as a dominance/alpha male thing.

As with the lifting/climbing thing, safety tools should be provided. In this case, good lighting, and the ability to check the area before leaving the building. Probably personal alarms that trigger an alarm inside the store, too.
And the police in the local area should be consulted - find out if the local criminals more commonly target male or female employees.
Finally, the person/people whose jobs involve being out the back at night should be those who are fit, healthy, and (if possible) have current self defence training.

That way, the danger is reduced - and the decision is made based on real data, not prejudice.



And yes, making such decisions based on prejudice, not ability, is sexist.

However, the fact that males are usually taller and stronger means that those doing lifting jobs/height jobs will disproportionately be male. This is not sexist, this is simple statistical fact.