Country-bashing

[Boozy]

We've received help twice. We send help how many times?

US GDP, 2007: $13.86 trillion ($46,000 per capita)

Sri Lanka GDP, 2007: $83.21 billion ($4100 per capita)

Despite the entire nation of Sri Lanka still reeling from the devastation of the tsunami of the previous December, and despite having a GDP less than 1% the size of America's, they still sent $25,000 to the US in the aftermath of Katrina.

America should have been ashamed to cash that cheque.

The US also received offers from Bangladesh in the amount of $1 million, and Cuba, a country that has been suffering from a US trade embargo for over 40 years, offered to send over 1000 doctors.

Cuba's generous offer was refused. Don't want no help from those damn pinko commies, I guess.

America is the richest country in the world, and has achieved much of this on the backs of less fortunate countries. The Centre for Global Development ranks the US 14th in the world in the amount of foreign assistance they provide.

Personally, I don't want a dime of Canadian foreign aid going to the US, any more than I donate my Christmas food hamper to the millionaires across town. I donate my time and money to the needy.

[AFPheonix]

Yes. Iraq most definitely, and Afghanistan the first time around was a perfect example of a proxy war. I dislike the idea of using innocent people to take a jab at an enemy.

Well, how many weather disasters have we helped Canada with? I don't recall doing anything for them in some of the god-awful ice storms they've had in the past. Did we do anything for Mexico when hurricanes devastated their east coast?
I'm fairly certain we didn't do anything for Britain when the Rhine flooded.

[daleduke17]

We're the richest and most powerful nation in the world. Why would countries who have far less money and influence than us feel obligated to help us? Like you mentioned, when we really did need help, we did indeed receive it.

We've received help twice. We send help how many times? When the Greensburg tornado hit in Kansas (and probably so currently in AR and TN) the National Guard was stretched so thin that help couldn't get there immediately. Did we receive any help from Mexico or Canada (or any other country)? No (unless I missed it somewhere). I'm not saying that we should only give help when we are going to get help, but, it seems like the USA is being used a lot more than it should be.

We help in places like Somalia and Darfur because it's the right thing to do. If we are to reap the benefits of globalization, then we must give back in turn by helping others when they need it. We cannot become isolationist now, we are entirely too dependent on other regions economically.

I just don't like spending so much around the world when there are problems in our own backyard that seem to be overlooked because they "aren't cool". Seriously, the USA is not in any shape to be helping out in Darfur in any military shape. What all is going on right now? Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel/Palestine still has some of our troops (I think) and protection of the USA itself.

I agree with the limit to help. We should do so only when we aren't going to fuck around with whomever it is we're going to help. Fighting proxy wars in other places should be stopped.

I'm guessing Iraq is one of those times?

[AFPheonix]

We're the richest and most powerful nation in the world. Why would countries who have far less money and influence than us feel obligated to help us? Like you mentioned, when we really did need help, we did indeed receive it.

We help in places like Somalia and Darfur because it's the right thing to do. If we are to reap the benefits of globalization, then we must give back in turn by helping others when they need it. We cannot become isolationist now, we are entirely too dependent on other regions economically.

I agree with the limit to help. We should do so only when we aren't going to fuck around with whomever it is we're going to help. Fighting proxy wars in other places should be stopped.

[daleduke17]

One word: genocide.

Gotcha, but, I'd like to ask another question:

Why does the United States of America have to jump in and police the world? I don't see any of the other countries jumping in near as much as the USA. I know genocide is bad and all, but, it seems like the USA is forgetting about their own citizens who are in need over taking care of everyone else in the world. The USA seems to not take much help from other countries (or it at least doesn't make the news too often) when the country has a disaster, but, the USA is out there everytime there's a problem (natural or manmade).

The tsunmai, Darfur, Somalia in the mid 90s, Mexico's numerous hurricanes, etc and etc. The USA seems to have gotten help twice in recent memory: 9/11 and Katrina (don't remember about Rita, though).

I'm not saying the USA should NOT go out and help, but, there needs to be a limit to it. The USA needs to have several things fixed or maintained, but the money isn't there. If something happens abroad, there is magically enough money.

Sorry to sound like such an asshole.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I hate to ask, why is the US needed in Somalia or Darfur?

One word: genocide.

[daleduke17]

Stop fucking around in other countries' business when we don't need to (like Iraq), but stepping in in places when it's definitely needed, like Somalia currently and Darfur?

Furthermore not holding a double standard as far as our allies' behavior compared to some less savory countries, like we do with Israel and, say, Syria?

I hate to ask, why is the US needed in Somalia or Darfur?

[Greenday]

You can't, and shouldn't be expected to. But you (as a nation) can prevent your mega-corporations from making it harder. And a lot of the 'how' can be summarised as holding the mega-corps responsible for the stuff they do.

They can't actually be punished for it. If it's not happening inside our country, on our turf, our laws don't apply. And, since shutting down of all companies that do such a think would cripple the US economy, the government will not do a thing. I mean, there are checks and balances to prevent the government from hurting the economy through laws and such.

[Seshat]

We cant even give everyone in america the american way of life, how can we do that for everyone else on the planet?

You can't, and shouldn't be expected to. But you (as a nation) can prevent your mega-corporations from making it harder. And a lot of the 'how' can be summarised as holding the mega-corps responsible for the stuff they do.

Continue the same process you've gone through as a nation: stopping the railroad barons, stopping the 'company store' abuses, stopping abusive child labour. The big mega-corporations are still doing that sort of stuff, they're just doing them overseas and 'out of sight'. But those abuses were out of sight to most Americans even when they were happening in America. Yet you stopped them anyway.

Simply doing it again - stopping those abuses again - will go a LONG way towards improving everyone's welfare. More jobs in America, since some jobs will be more profitable to do close-to-market once abusive labour is no longer available; and better conditions elsewhere.

[AFPheonix]

Stop fucking around in other countries' business when we don't need to (like Iraq), but stepping in in places when it's definitely needed, like Somalia currently and Darfur?

Furthermore not holding a double standard as far as our allies' behavior compared to some less savory countries, like we do with Israel and, say, Syria?

[rahmota]

Seshat: yeah america may have its own corruption, social classes and lack of great social mobility and definately a lot less of the whole jackboot thuggery. We've got problems but by comparison its still not that bad a place.

As for getting things in the rest of the world worked out. Ummm yeah sure when I get to deity status I'll get back to you on that one. Seriously good luck on figuring that one out. We cant even give everyone in america the american way of life, how can we do that for everyone else on the planet?

[Seshat]

DitchDJ: I think a lot of it is people hate the policies and politics of America, especially concerning the international sphere of influence.

Yes. Most frustrations with "America" are frustrations with unfair trade practices, uncontrolled corporate greed, and arrogant political behaviours. None of these are the fault of ordinary Americans; but people who haven't come into contact with many ordinary Americans don't know that. Nor do the kind of people who prefer knee-jerk reactions to thinking.

But they like the way americans have a lot more freedoms, personal wealth and lack of people with guns waiting to do the whole jackboot tpa dance on their head.

Definitely. They want freedom to raise their children in a relatively uncorrupt environment, they want medical treatment, they want the kind of life they see displayed in American sitcoms.

Then they actually get to the States and are shocked and distressed by minimum wage jobs that only let them afford a dirty shared apartment with no heat, and a complete lack of medical insurance, and - well, the sitcoms LIED.

But still, at least they don't have a jackboot on their head, their sons aren't being forcibly conscripted at age ten, and their daughters aren't being raped by the local so-called 'police'. It's still better.

As I mentioned (in different words) in a different thread: if we richer countries helped get most of the world's people into safe, relatively uncorrupt lives where all their needs and some of their wants are met, illegal immigration will be greatly reduced.

[Sylvia727]

I wasn't trying to quote any one specific person, and I'm sorry if you read it as so. I was just trying to sum up the debate in as few words as possible.

As to the people who bash on Americans and then try to move here: I don't see how this behavior is hypocritical at all. They want our nice things. We have a lot of nice things, some say we have too many nice things. But no two people are going to share every single opinion, and it's primarily attitudes that get bashed. A frequent insult I see in regards to Americans is "corrupt." The idea from some bigoted losers seems to be that every single American is a spoiled child, and our nice things should go to someone more deserving. It's a disgusting attitude, but not hypocritical.

I frankly don't understand it. I don't go onto CS, read a SC customer thread, and respond with "Well, that's typical RandomCountrysCitizen behavior."

[rahmota]

DitchDJ: I think a lot of it is people hate the policies and politics of America, especially concerning the international sphere of influence. But they like the way americans have a lot more freedoms, personal wealth and lack of people with guns waiting to do the whole jackboot tpa dance on their head. Even as screwed up as america has become over the past 8 years we are still better than quite a few places on this planet.

[ditchdj]

There's a thread over on CS right now that getting pretty heated, so I thought I start the debate over here. The argument is that Americans (or USAns) get bashed when they go to other countries, so it's okay for Americans to bash foreigners here.

I never said that. I cant apologize for something I didnt say. That's how some people have chosen to take it. But it really pisses me off to no end when people in the world single out Americans for being loud and rude and blame America for the world's problems. Then I turn around and see and hear about millions of people all over the world literally tearing down our borders to move here. I once had a conversation about this with a student teacher that just moved here from Israel. I told him that I find it funny that so many people in the world hate America and Americans, yet there's so many people in the world that want to move here and adopt OUR way of life. He actually wasnt offended at all and explained to me that our country has a much higher standard of living and how much better opportunities there are here. But when I look at the big picture, what do people care what I think? In the end, people are gonna think what they wanna think and the ONLY thing that I (and everyone else) can do is just be aware of our circumstances and adapt to survive.