Confederate Flag Outside Courthouse Proof of Racist Rulings?

[Greenday]

Man claims Confederate flag outside courthouse proves racism affected his verdict

In South Carolina, this man was found guilty of murder and sentenced to death. Along with skeptical witness choices, Dorsey contends that the Confederate flag hung outside the courthouse is proof that racism affected the courts decision. His jury was all white except for one black person. We all know jury selection is a huge deal in winning a case. Seems the prosecution did a damn good job. They excused one possible black juror because during questioning, he raised the point of how offensive he found it that a courthouse, a place that supposedly contains no bias, would fly the Confederate flag. As a result, the defense is using this to try to get a mistrial from what I'm gathering.

I know there are people who are going to say, "Naw, it refers to Southern pride, the soldiers who fought for the Confederacy, and state's rights" but they seem to ignore the fact that it represents a group of states whose main state right that they were fighting for was to own slaves. I think it's an excellent point for once of racism in the system.

[HYHYBT]

Context is everything, and that *particular* flag appears to be part of a war memorial. Meaning it symbolizes respect for the dead and should be presumed, unless other reasons turn up, to have nothing to do with the on-goings in the courthouse.

That doesn't mean the jury (or the judge, or the lawyers, etc) were unbiased. It doesn't mean they weren't, either.

[Greenday]

Context is everything, and that *particular* flag appears to be part of a war memorial. Meaning it symbolizes respect for the dead and should be presumed, unless other reasons turn up, to have nothing to do with the on-goings in the courthouse.

That doesn't mean the jury (or the judge, or the lawyers, etc) were unbiased. It doesn't mean they weren't, either.

A war memorial for people who fought for state's rights which were mainly slavery. It's cute that people think the main cause of the Civil War was state's rights and yes, for the most part it was. But the main right that was fought over was one which brings us all the way back to this case.

[Andara Bledin]

But the main right that was fought over was one which brings us all the way back to this case.

You need to brush up on your Civil War history. It only became about slavery after Lincoln realized that without something righteous to rally the north, the south was going to win.

Considering the facts of the case, I don't think that the actual claim will stand up, but the claim that it was used as part of an effort to have a less than partial jury might, though it's rather a longshot.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

Let's play a game. Let's state why the Civil War happened. You can't use the words slavery or "state's rights". Go.

[lordlundar]

Nope, not gonna play your diversionary game Greenday. That's Glenn Beck's style and I refuse to acknowledge it.

Point is, the flag is not there as a current belief of the courts, but there as a war memorial. If it was an issue of racism, then there's going to need to be a more direct link to prove it.

And I will simplify so that I don't get misquoted or misinterpreted (again), I am not saying that there wasn't a racist bias in the ruling. I am saying that flag that is there as a commemoration for lives lost is not a factor.

[protege]

Context is everything, and that *particular* flag appears to be part of a war memorial. Meaning it symbolizes respect for the dead and should be presumed, unless other reasons turn up, to have nothing to do with the on-goings in the courthouse.

That's how I saw it too. The flag is part of a memorial, and really doesn't have anything to do with the trial. The twit is grasping at straws, in other words. I hate to say it folks, but as soon as someone plays the "race card," I automatically think they're guilty...and trying to divert attention away from that. Also, let's not automatically assume that the jury was stacked either. Sure, there was only one black person on it. Maybe that there were more...but they were picked for other cases? Maybe there simply weren't more that day.

[Andara Bledin]

Also, let's not automatically assume that the jury was stacked either. Sure, there was only one black person on it. Maybe that there were more...but they were picked for other cases? Maybe there simply weren't more that day.

Maybe they were dismissed for stating a dislike for the flag at the memorial.

The reason this man's lawyers are going after this particular issue is because one black juror was dismissed specifically for voicing his objection to the flag, thus raising the question of whether dismissal on that grounds indicates a broader racial bias in the jury selection.

From the article linked:

Carl Staples, a prospective black juror, was struck from the case by prosecutors after complaining about the flag.

The flag "is a symbol of one of the most…heinous crimes ever committed," Mr. Staples said, according to court briefs. "You're here for justice and then again you overlook this great injustice by continuing to fly this flag," he added, calling the flag "salt in the wounds of…people of color."

"When I was screened for the jury, it welled up inside of me and I expressed my feelings," Mr. Staples said in an interview. A part-time radio engineer and announcer in Shreveport, he said, "I don't understand how judges or lawyers allowed that flag to stand."

I, personally, find the flag to be in poor taste; the memorial doesn't need it. As for the merits of the case, I don't have nearly enough information. I could honestly see it going either way.

^-.-^

[Skunkle]

I would have to agree that there's a good chance the flag specifically has nothing directly to do with why this case went the way it did. However, I also believe that many parts of the south (and elsewhere, but especially in that general direction) are still dealing with severe racism; I would bet this trial contained a good chunk of it; and I think the black guy complaining about the flag was an easy cover excuse to knock another black person off the jury roster. I hope the mistrial happens and they get things in order. Not to say that "get things in order" means "call the guy innocent", but it DOES mean "NOT a mostly-white jury". Am I biased? maybe. Do I think an all-but-one-white Jury in South Carolina would be racially biased in the extreme, and would stand a fair likelihood of ruling based more on this than anything else (AND would stand a good chance of intimidating the one black person into agreeing)? Hell yes.

[Boozy]

The Confederate flag is used as a symbol of hatred in too many cases, and generally makes people feel uncomfortable. I think it's time for it to be retired.

But from a legal standpoint, this isn't a strong case.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I think the guy may actually have a point that his trial was racially biased, but not because of the flag on the courthouse property.

First of all, that's not SC. It's Louisiana. Thank God it's not us looking like idiots on the national news again.

For the record, I cannot stand that the confederate flag shows up anywhere. To me, it's become the symbol of bigotry and small mindedness. Didn't start out that way, but there you go. I see someone with that in their yard, on their tee shirt, or on their bumper, I'm sorry but I am going to jump to a whole lot of conclusions that may or may not be true.

Having said that, it's not on the courthouse roof. It's on a confederate memorial. Which is an appropriate place for it. In that context, it's appropriate and historical.

When they took the damn thing off the roof of our own statehouse, nobody was gladder of that than I was. However, I was and am okay with it going onto a confederate memorial on the grounds, along with the police memorial, the southern women memorial, the African American memorial, and the various other historical thing on the grounds.

As for racism in the guy's trial, I'm far more interested and worried that there was a only a single black dude on the jury in Louisiana. That is not a cross section of the defendant's peers. That's not a cross section of any citizen of Louisiana's peers be they black or white or creole or Cajun.

[protege]

For the record, I cannot stand that the confederate flag shows up anywhere. To me, it's become the symbol of bigotry and small mindedness. Didn't start out that way, but there you go. I see someone with that in their yard, on their tee shirt, or on their bumper, I'm sorry but I am going to jump to a whole lot of conclusions that may or may not be true.

I'm with you. That stupid flag is prominently displayed on several pickups and buildings in SW PA. You don't see it in in Pittsburgh--you'd have to be *insane* to put that on your car, especially when driving through certain neighborhoods. Yet, it thrives in the rural areas. Unfortunately, in many cases, the stereotypes *are* true. Seriously Cletus, Bubba, and the rest of you hicks, sell the '78 Camaro up on blocks, get a job, and move out of the trailer park

[HYHYBT]

THAT one is? The Confederacy used many different flags, and this particular one isn't common, though it does *contain* what most people think of as "the" Confederate flag and which is almost exclusively the one used for racist, etc purposes.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Evidently, what they have flying on the monument in Louisiana is not the battle flag, but what was dubbed The Blood Stained Banner that was adopted just before the fall of the Confederacy according to Wikipedia.

I see a Secesh flag on a white field, I roll my eyes a little less hard. But only just. And I totally cut it slack if it's in the proper context. Which this is.

Hey, I give them credit for it not being a battle flag. The one on top of our freaking State House, which they only just got around to taking the hell off the roof in 2000, was a battle flag, if you can believe that.

Now that being up there? Offensive. It was put up there during the sixties to send a clear message. And you can guess what that message was and who it was aimed at.

Tell you what else was offensive. Scroll down and look at the pic of the state house on that same Wiki page. I was inside that copper dome the day the flag came down. I was on a camera crew. It was July in South Carolina and that copper dome was like a convection oven. Spent three days up there setting up. Talk about hot as balls, I don't know how we didn't all die.

But anyways, kudos for them for at least having the brains to put the right damn flag on their memorial. Half these rednecks over here don't even know there's a difference.

[Sarah Valentine]

The Confederate flag is used as a symbol of hatred in too many cases, and generally makes people feel uncomfortable.

Bill's dad is a terrible racist and has the battle flag in his room and was very choosy about what wall it was hung on, he always has his door open so you can see it. Bill and the rest of his family are fine, it's just his dad that's very hateful towards certain groups of people.