The language question

[Rapscallion]

This one rears its ugly head from time to time.

The UK has had a large number of immigrants in recent times. Well, truth to tell, we've had waves of immigration over many years, and the current ones are generally from the Middle East or Eastern Europe.

The main thrust of recent times in this arena has been 'multiculturalism', whereby people are supposed to accept that other races/creeds have different values. The rather obvious outcome was ghetto areas, and there are chunks of England that are out-of-bounds to anyone white or non-muslim. That idea has completely failed and our prime minister has recently said that immigrants should integrate, not remain separate. Most commentators agree that had he said this five years ago, his backbench MPs would have torn him to pieces for being 'racist'.

Where do I stand on the issue? As far as I'm concerned, if you voluntarily go to another country, you accept that you are going to be in a place where people act differently. In most cases of emmigrants, the countries near to the one someone left often have very similar values, so why travel a third of the way around the globe only to find somewhere with different values and then try and make them act according to what you want/need?

I've got no problem with somoene who can and will learn the language. Learning the predominant tongue of a country will mean that the learner will take in some of the cultural values of their new home as they are taught. When languages interact, you get some flow between them - we have words from all over the world in English. Try kosher, fatwah, jihad - these words are commonly known, yet they came from other cultures. That's how integration works.

What I'd like to see is a system whereby those who are able to learn the language of their new country should do so to an acceptable degree within six months, or they get deported. Now, I don't think it should be compulsory for those who are over sixty, for example, as old people struggle to learn languages far more than young people, and there are people who are learning disabled, but both of these should be a minority in the immigration stakes. After that, if you can't speak the language to an acceptable degree so that you can at least survive in the country in which you wish to live, why should that country provide interpreters and translations of official languages in your tongue? It's downright rude to expect that.

As far as oppressive cultures go, where women are not allowed to learn etc, then don't be overly surprised when we just deport your sorry arse back to the hellhole from which you came. We have a tolerant and open culture over here, and women have the right to learn and vote. If you don't accept that, you don't fit in.

Rapscallion

[ditchdj]

I noticed the same kind of problems when I was in Spain in 2002. They have problems with immigrants pouring in from Morocco, Senegal, and gypsies from Romania. They usually keep to themselves (except when they're panhandling) and the people in general steer clear of them. That was my experience when I was there. But yeah, I think it's rude to go to another country and just expect everyone to welcome you with open arms and conform to you. To me it's like barging into someone's home and moving in uninvited and then demanding that everyone lives by YOUR rules and ways.

I can kinda relate to it moving to Southern Indiana. Most people here dont like out-of-town people. They dont say it to your face. You can just tell by how most people act toward you. As long as they dont cause me any problems I just let them think whatever they want.

[rahmota]

True I live in the fringes of Appalachia and this area is rather insular. It seems like if your family hasnt lived in the area for at least 2-3 generations then you're still the new people on the block.

As for the immigration issue. It used to be that immigrants coming to america where proud to try and learn english and to be a part of their new home while still keeping many of the traditions and beliefs of their home culture. The irish/german folks who moved to the ohio river valley and the hills of appalachia brought their music and foods and culture with them and yet still they learned english and worked on becoming a part of the bigger whole without loosing their prime identity.

Now fast forward to today and we have people coming to this country and expecting the greater whole to bend over backwards to change and permit them to continue lving thier lives as if they never left their homeland. Wanting to be able to not learn english, not have to read english, not play by the general laws of the country. Its not every immigrant that causes the problem too though.

[AFPheonix]

I think the problem with Europe's immigrants isn't just a language problem, but the way they're assimilated into society. I do think this is where the more socialist model goes wrong.

America screws a lot of stuff up, but I think it is a great idea to really integrate these people into the workforce as much as possible. Gives em' something to do with their time besides burn cars, they pretty much are immersed in the language between coworkers and customers, and it gives them a point of pride that they're making their own way. Are there still people who don't have the hang of English? Of course, but I just think of it that they're handicapping themselves more than anything.

I do think it's important for EVERYONE to have to learn at least one other language. Especially in this day and age where we are becoming more interconnected than ever before, it's important that we can communicate. This includes even people in the midwest that are pretty much only in contact with other white people.