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  • "Uncivilized" black people

    Recently, I have joined a debate group on Facebook. It's a rather nice group, except for the way some people have a habit of posting images to start their topic rather than simply making a statement.

    One picture showed what looked like a happy, upper-middle class or upper-class black family and was labeled "Black people." And another showed the rapper Lil' Wayne and was labeled "Niggers," with the statement "When you put it like that, is it really racist?"

    One of the members posted (quite accurately I feel,) that the answer was yes, it's still racist, because the term is racist even if you mean a certain subculture of black people. But he concluded with "They're both black people, but one is more civilized."

    That bothered me. I don't like the idea of calling someone 'more civilized.' Civilized seems like it should be a fairly binary state. Either you are civilized, or you are not. You may be deviant or not deviant, but you're still civilized unless you reject civilization, in which case you're uncivilized.

    But what really got me about that is, well... Lil' Wayne, whatever you think of his music, is a musician. He goes to a studio, records himself rapping, puts a beat to it, and then distributes it. He distributes it through Cash Money Records, who print it on CDs and send it to stores, where it is sold. It is also sold digitally. Lil' Wayne then gets some of the proceeds from that. It is also distributed digitally, and he gets the proceeds from that too.

    Looking into his background, he was arrested once, for marijuana possession and illegal possession of a firearm (I'd dispute the second charge, to tell the truth.)

    So unless smoking marijuana is uncivilized, or owning guns is uncivilized, then really he seems like a fairly civilized person. And if that makes someone uncivilized, is John Lennon uncivilized? He certainly smoked marijuana.

    Or is it that owning a handgun makes someone uncivilized? (In fact, Lil' Wayne never claimed to own it, it was on a tour bus that he traveled with his manager in. The manager owned the handgun legally. Wayne was nevertheless charged with 'unlawful possession' for sitting close to it.)

    And the last thing that gets me... Why do I never see rednecks and hillbillies called 'uncivilized'? I seem them called stupid, backwards, idiotic, inbred, all sorts of things. But I've never seen 'uncivilized.'

    This is bothering me, I suppose.
    "Nam castum esse decet pium poetam
    ipsum, versiculos nihil necessest"

  • #2
    I think there is "trash" among every race. And it's only racist because there aren't really any terms that actually would hurt a white person's feelings.

    I believe very much so that there are uncivilized white people. You could show a picture of a normal white family, and then in the next picture, you could show a family where Dad has a mullet, mom is wearing a bikini top and daisy duke shorts, and the kids haven't been bathed in weeks, and behind them is their double wide trailer and their monster trucks and their antique Challenger on cinder blocks, complete with Confederate flag in their front yard and probably a swastika somewhere on there as well.

    White trash should insult and hurt some people's feelings, but I think for a lot of people, it makes them proud. Like Eminem and Kid Rock.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by blas87 View Post
      I think there is "trash" among every race. And it's only racist because there aren't really any terms that actually would hurt a white person's feelings.
      There are, its just, as you pointed out, the ones you would actually want to insult are so beyond stupid they no longer grasp its suppose to be an insult. Heck, one of the most damaging things about the US political process is that you have people voting who are not just fucking stupid, but PROUD of being fucking stupid. >.>

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      • #4
        Hey, I grew up in a double-wide! .....They're really nice....on the inside.....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gravekeeper View Post
          Heck, one of the most damaging things about the US political process is that you have people voting who are not just fucking stupid, but PROUD of being fucking stupid. >.>
          Oh, gods, I despise these people.

          My ex used to know a girl who acted so stupid that my mom actually asked her point blank, "are you really that stupid or is it just an act?" to which she replied, "Oh, no, I'm just stupid," as if it were something to be admired. >_<

          It's anti-intellectualism taken to the absurd. Rove and his cronies sold this ticket hard because it's easier to fool stupid people into doing things against their own best interests.

          ^-.-^
          Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Andara Bledin View Post
            It's anti-intellectualism taken to the absurd.
            Ugh. One of my regular customers is a minister and I once brought up something that got us talking (I don't believe in his faith and didn't want to straight up say it). I then told him that I imagined we could have a very interesting intelligent discussion with him and he processed to say he was "anti-intellectual." Why? I have no words to describe my bafflement at this.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by blas87 View Post
              White trash should insult and hurt some people's feelings, but I think for a lot of people, it makes them proud. Like Eminem and Kid Rock.
              Yep, that's *exactly* it. They're so fucking stupid, that they see being a redneck as one of their life accomplishments. Well that, and finally being able to afford a set of Yosemite Sam mudflaps for their 1978 Ford pickup...which hasn't *moved* since 1978 With these folks, no amount of calling them "white trash" will get them upset, nor will it persuade them to upgrade their lifestyle. They're proud of living in filth, or participating in various other redneck activities, that they'll never change. It's an endless cycle--the offspring will perpetuate it, simply because they're too stupid to know any better.

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              • #8
                I live in a country that has *cough*5000 years of culture and history*cough*.

                Yet, daily people spit, shit, piss and throw their rubbish all over the place. Yes, I do mean that literally! Kids are taught to piss and shit on the sidewalk by their parents.

                Some concepts, such as forward thinking, or even analytical thinking, are just too strange for many.

                The concept of taking responsibility for your actions (you know - like 'study') is foreign (well, in university it is - I've been told the hard thing is just to get in - then you pass!)

                Is this 'uncivilised'??
                ZOE: Preacher, don't the Bible got some pretty specific things to say about killing?

                SHEPHERD BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, Somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Slytovhand View Post
                  Is this 'uncivilised'??
                  Yeppers. I work in a neighborhood *exactly* like that. It's pretty common to find litter all over the sidewalk in front of the office, along with dog shit or puke. The class of people that live there...is pretty low. Yet, they get upset when someone calls them out on it...or dares litter in that area. Sorry, but if you don't care about living in filth, why should I bother to put my candy wrapper in a trash can? I don't throw litter around, but there's a *reason* people (who don't live there) make fun of that neighborhood, and refer it as a "shithole."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hyena Dandy View Post
                    One of the members posted (quite accurately I feel,) that the answer was yes, it's still racist, because the term is racist even if you mean a certain subculture of black people. But he concluded with "They're both black people, but one is more civilized."

                    That bothered me. I don't like the idea of calling someone 'more civilized.' Civilized seems like it should be a fairly binary state. Either you are civilized, or you are not.
                    what would bother me about this judgement is is a judgement based solely on appearances and images used for marketing a persona, that may or may not reflect the actual person.

                    Ted Bundy used his "clean cut appearance" to lure his victims into a false sense of security, the BTK killer had a "normal" home life, and family, John Wayne Gacy was an entertainer for children, these are some of the most "uncivilized" people I can think of.
                    Registered rider scenic shore 150 charity ride

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BlaqueKatt View Post
                      what would bother me about this judgement is is a judgement based solely on appearances and images used for marketing a persona, that may or may not reflect the actual person.
                      Can't forget the old story about a bunch of bikers descending on a small-town "mom and pop" store, with the owners being nervous about these scruffy people who were buying out their entire stock of sandwich fixings, soda, and beer. Once the bikers leave, the owners mention to a couple of clean-cut young men who were also in the store "We're glad those people are gone". The response of the clean-cut young men? "So are we" (pull guns) "now stick 'em up!"

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                      • #12
                        Don't worry Admin, my parents lived in a trailer before I was born, I have had a lot of friends/family who have lived in trailers. Nowadays, you can get some trailers that are better than apartments.

                        I was referring to the run-down, held together with duct tape and bullshit trailer with the white trash family and their rusty old muscle car on cinderblocks, daddy in his belly shirt cursing out the N word people, while playing with his mullet and drinking Nattie Ice.

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                        • #13
                          here in my town there is "trash" of all flavors.

                          1. there is the trash from the 2 major metro areas 2 - 3 hours south of me (pick any one of many flavors, sizes and whatever)
                          2. there is the trash that comes in from the rural "out in the country"
                          3. there is the poser trash
                          3. there is the "I don't care" trash
                          4. there is the .......

                          and on and on and on. and this is a fairly small upper mid-western town
                          I'm lost without a paddle and I'm headed up sh*t creek.

                          I got one foot on a banana peel and the other in the Twilight Zone.
                          The Fools - Life Sucks Then You Die

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by blas87 View Post
                            their rusty old muscle car on cinderblocks,
                            Can someone explain this to me?

                            I am not american and have no experience with this.

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                            • #15
                              Civilisation is like ethics, morals, enlightenment, and a whole host of other terms.

                              It boils down to 'what I agree with'.

                              Rapscallion
                              Proud to be a W.A.N.K.E.R. - Womanless And No Kids - Exciting Rubbing!
                              Reclaiming words is fun!

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