Victim blaming vs advice

[NecCat]

I didn't finish the article Canarr linked but this:

'Whether she thinks she wants it or not'

and this:

'The only reason we may now not feel raped or have the impression we desired or initiated PIV, is because men broke down our barriers very skillfully and progressively from birth, breaking down our natural defences to pain and invasion, our confidence in our own perceptions and sensations of fear and disgust that tell us male sexual invasion is painful, harmful and traumatic.'

Thoroughly pissed me off. What I understood from that is that, because I am a woman, I am unable to make an intelligent decision about whether or not I want to have sex, because I am so feeble-minded that I can be brainwashed by men into agreeing to something even though I don't really like it, even though I think I do? Because my feelings are wrong, which I am too dumb to figure out? Talk about the dehumanization and oppression of women.

Although this tickled me:

'shaking her like he would stuff a corpse, then using her insides as a receptacle for his penile dejection.'

Who stuffs a corpse? Who shakes one while they are stuffing it? What the hell is a penile dejection? Is his penis sad, is ejaculate really tears of the dejected penis?

[TheHuckster]

I tried to follow the logic, but gave up quickly. It hurts. It really, really hurts. How on Earth an (apparently) intelligent, educated person can put forth... this... as a reasonable theory is completely beyond me. It doesn't make sense. At all.

Doubly so that in (AFAIK) every mammal does it this way. Nature intended the penis to enter the vagina for procreation. You don't even see primates jacking off and then rubbing their ejaculate onto a female's vagina.

'shaking her like he would stuff a corpse, then using her insides as a receptacle for his penile dejection.'

This sounds like something one of Phil Hendrie's "guests" would say.

[KabeRinnaul]

It's impressive how this person seems to have never had good sex even once in her life. And also ignores homosexuality entirely in her quest to paint all men as members of an oppressive rape-driven woman-hating patriarchy.

[Lace Neil Singer]

She's as crazy as the idiot who came up with the idea of "legitimate rape".
http://time.com/3001785/todd-akin-le...child-of-rape/

Want to have sex and not get pregnant? Just make sure that you're legitimately raped.

Back to the topic, that article always reminds me of people who say "Well, that wasn't real rape" when reading about a person who was raped while excessively drunk. I'm sorry, I thought that the definition of rape was a person forced into sex. A person who's drunk either can't consent, or is powerless to stop an assailant, so still rape.

[siead_lietrathua]

Back to the topic, that article always reminds me of people who say "Well, that wasn't real rape" when reading about a person who was raped while excessively drunk.

the only time i've seen this used validly is when both parties were drunk beyond consent. because, at that point, who can you identify was the rapist? we can't just assume it was the man because he has a penis.

[Canarr]

Back to the topic, that article always reminds me of people who say "Well, that wasn't real rape" when reading about a person who was raped while excessively drunk. I'm sorry, I thought that the definition of rape was a person forced into sex. A person who's drunk either can't consent, or is powerless to stop an assailant, so still rape.

Yeah, sorry for the OT; I just needed to share that... article... with someone.

I'm with you there... up until a certain point. No question: someone deliberately getting another person drunk, or otherwise impaired, in order to have sex with them, is a rapist. Same goes for someone deliberately taking advantage of another person already being inebriated, without contributing to their state themselves.

the only time i've seen this used validly is when both parties were drunk beyond consent. because, at that point, who can you identify was the rapist? we can't just assume it was the man because he has a penis.

And here's my "certain point". If two people get drunk together, then have sex together, it's not rape. If two minors have sex together, it's not statutory rape, either (under German law, at least). This apparent trend at US colleges I've been reading about, where (mostly female) students file rape claims against (mostly male) students they've drunkenly hooked up with, is rather disturbing to me. Especially considering colleges can expell students rather quickly under such allegations.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Yeah, if both parties were drunk and there was no coercion involved, or a case where one person got the other drunk to have sex, then are both rapists? If the woman's sober and the man's drunk, then technically, the woman's a rapist... but somehow I don't see a report going very far.

[BlaqueKatt]

This apparent trend at US colleges I've been reading about, where (mostly female) students file rape claims against (mostly male) students they've drunkenly hooked up with, is rather disturbing to me. Especially considering colleges can expell students rather quickly under such allegations.

THAT IS A MYTH, PLEASE STOP PERPETUATING IT!
(it's very close to being classified as rape apologetics at this point, as it's been refuted for years as being patently FALSE, yet every.single.time. a conversation on rape happens it comes up)



That IS NOT what's happening. That's why we're having title IX lawsuits all over the place. The colleges are doing nothing. We have Fraternities using color coded hand stamps to drug pretty girls, predators plying women with alcohol*, and colleges saying "it's your word against his so we WON'T do ANYTHING"

The "false report from a drunken hookup" is a myth used to silence victims.

This article has a good inforgraphic that should shed some light on rape statistics including false reports.

False rape reports are no higher than that of any other crime, and statistically only 3% of rapists spend even a single day in jail, around 90% of assault victims never report it.

it's actually on almost every rape myth list you can dig up(usually in the top ten)
Heck here's one solely about that particular damaging myth
And a full article on how perpetuating the myth damages victims


*some are doubting the article because "gang rapes don't happen at good colleges" yet this article lists seven separate accounts

[HYHYBT]

Unless it absolutely NEVER happens that, for whatever reason, someone who consented to sex later decides to call it rape, it's not a myth that it happens. The only question would be about the frequency.

[BlaqueKatt]

Unless it absolutely NEVER happens that, for whatever reason, someone who consented to sex later decides to call it rape, it's not a myth that it happens. The only question would be about the frequency.

Strawman.

Calling it a "trend" as in the portion I quoted, and specifically addressed that It's no more frequent than with other crimes. it was the myth of the frequency(yes calling something a trend speaks to increasing frequency) being discussed as a myth. Unless you can show me where I said "it doesn't happen" (hint:I didn't, and wouldn't, 2% is not never)

[Rageaholic]

From what I know, rape is one of the hardest crimes to prosecute. What I'm wondering is if it's hard to prosecute because law enforcement doesn't see rape as a big deal or if it's just one of those crimes that's hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Or if it's a combination of the two.

[Kheldarson]

From what I know, rape is one of the hardest crimes to prosecute. What I'm wondering is if it's hard to prosecute because law enforcement doesn't see rape as a big deal or if it's just one of those crimes that's hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Or if it's a combination of the two.

Probably a bit of a combination with a bit more emphasis on the former.

You have the societal issue of sex being a big no discussion area, with rape being a loud call to arms in that area. So people want to avoid discussing sex even though there's a crime involved and sweep it under the rug. You have the idea that, well, the victim must have asked for it somehow, so we'll sweep it under the rug.

And then, of course, there's the big issue of it being an intimate crime, so you have one person saying one thing and the other another, and unless there's other evidence beyond just having had sex, yeah, it may be difficult to prove.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Sadly, it IS a fact that false rape claims happen, and anyone who claims otherwise is deluding themselves. It would be better if it didn't, cuz false rape claims only make it so much harder for genuine victims to come forward and report what happened to them. Rape being the horrific crime it is is NO excuse to blindly believe every single rape accusation regardless of the facts.

Brian Banks was sent to prison after being falsely accused. Luckily, he was able to clear his name, but the stigma of rape is such a horrible one that will often stick to a person forever, even if they are proved innocent.

Two people a month are prosecuted in the UK for making false accusations. Yes, it is a small figure, especially when compared to the amount of actual rape victims, but it's proof that false accusations do take place, despite what many feminist groups might say to the contrary.

And finally, this woman picked out a stranger off Facebook to fill the role of her "rapist", ruining his life in the process as well as wasting police time which could have been better spent supporting a genuine victim.

False accusations are not strawmen, they do happen and denying they do is just naive.

[HYHYBT]

It's unreasonable to call "strawman" for not accurately picking out the precise thing you were calling a myth in a post so vague as the one I was responding to.

[BlaqueKatt]

That IS NOT what's happening.

False rape reports are no higher than that of any other crime, and statistically only 3% of rapists spend even a single day in jail

it's actually on almost every rape myth list you can dig up(usually in the top ten)
Heck here's one solely about that particular damaging myth
And a full article on how perpetuating the myth damages victims

False accusations are not strawmen, they do happen and denying they do is just naive.

Please show me where in the above I'm saying they don't happen?

The strawman is misrepresenting that I'm saying they don't happen, when I'm calling out this as a myth

This apparent trend at US colleges I've been reading about

It's not a trend, all my links supported that they DO HAPPEN, but nowhere near enough to be a "trend", I'm not sure why I bother posting things if people don't bother reading them and put words in my mouth THAT I DIDN'T SAY!

That's the definition of a strawman-my argument never said "it doesn't happen", but that's what you all seem to be claiming I'm arguing.

It's unreasonable to call "strawman" for not accurately picking out the precise thing you were calling a myth in a post so vague as the one I was responding to.

yup so vague as to *specifically mention* that it happens at a low rate(not that it doesn't)

False rape reports are no higher than that of any other crime

so vague that the links ALSO mention amounts of occurance. yup I was really vague about what I was addressing......if you skimmed or didn't check links.