"But He/She Does It!"

[blas87]

I don't think we've really had a thread like this before, I put it in here just to play er safe.

We've had lots of posts on CS, though, regarding Beloved Asshole Syndrome or just plain posts about people who get in trouble for whatever reason, yet others are allowed to do it.

All in all, it's a good idea to never judge what's allowed by what others do, especially if it's iffy and just because a select few get away with it.

But at the same time, when you are the one in trouble (say for taking too long of a break or talking too much), and you have witnessed other coworkers get away with the same thing without a word said to them, without anything happening to them (warnings, being sent elsewhere to work alone).....it's frustrating, and one can't really help but feel that it isn't fair.

Something like that happened to me last night. Personally, I feel it's pretty low to essentially "kick" someone out of the work area and send them somewhere else, versus to tell them to cut it out with a warning, or flat out say "If you aren't going to take this seriously, I'm putting you somewhere else to work by yourself!" (as child-like as that sounds, meh). But no, I was just immediately sent to work somewhere else with entirely different people. And the thing was, if I had been told that the boss or lead thought I was talking too much, or I had been asked to be quiet (I don't believe for a second I was talking too much, I am a damn hard worker), there would have been no problem. Instead I was just sent away, and the others were "punished" by having to do the work that I had left behind, which would take two people to do, which meant that someone had to be taken away from a different task to help someone pick up my slack.

I've just decided I'm not going to talk to anyone anymore. Of course, within an hour, it will raise suspicion because normally I greet everyone and smile and try to go about my day the nicest I can, but nope. From now on, if it's not work related, don't talk to me. I guess I will have to rehearse a nice way of saying that to people, because I don't want to be rude about it, and I don't want to come across as having an attitude.

It irritates me because the guys always get away with talking. I've discussed this in the "hovering" thread about how I am watched like a hawk, while others work at their own leisure (or sometimes, barely at all). I get dirty looks if I dare talk while I work, while the guys constantly stop working to go over and talk to each other. This ALWAYS happened in my old work area as well, which is one of the reasons why I transferred.

I guess what I'm saying is let's debate not just this anectode story, but the whole "fairness" thing in general.

[Andara Bledin]

Life's not fair, and I think we kind of do a disservice to kids by trying to tell them that it somehow is.

The best we can do is try to be as unbiased as possible and hope others do the same.

Here's one for you:

My dad used to be a machinist. And he was the best machinist at the shop he worked at with an unprecedented 0% returns and almost no wasted material. He had so much extra material at the end of his runs, they allowed him to use some of it for personal projects. Well, one of the bosses did - the one that understood how valuable it was to have an employee of that caliber. The other boss, well... he just wanted the underlings to kiss his ass, not actually be any good at their jobs. So, my dad being taciturn at best, the moment the first partner went on vacation, the second gave my dad the boot.

Welcome to life in the real world. Fair it ain't.

^-.-^

[blas87]

Of course I realize life isn't fair. Although, it was one of my former shift lead's favorite quotes that he'd say right after he punished me for daring to ask someone for gum while the factory's most hated supercouple would stop working and talk nonstop for several minutes together.

[HYHYBT]

"Life's not fair" is not a valid excuse for making it less fair.

Now, if there's a *reason* for bending the rules, that's a bit different.

[DrFaroohk]

I'm usually one of the ones complaining that "He or she did it too!"

My reasoning? Look at it like this: You are punished for offense A. But James was not punished for Offense A. Why not? If the rule is that Offense A is bad, then both of you should be punished. Otherwise, Offense A is NOT bad, and no one needs to be punished. But if you get punished and James didn't, well, it obviously has nothing to do with the rule itself or the Offense in question, because if it did, both of you would have been punished.

That means its no longer about the rules or the Offense, it's become personal. Someone is dicking with you for personal gain. They may deny it, and in that case they're welcome to prove it - punish James as well for the same Offense. Not going to huh? I rest my case. Someone's dicking around and they're gonna get what's coming to them.

[Boozy]

"Life's not fair" is not a valid excuse for making it less fair.

I agree. No one is going to tell a cancer researcher or peace activist that "Life's not fair", so they ought to just give up.

Nevertheless, what I think people often mean when they say "Life's not fair" is "The issue you are complaining about is really a non-issue. Please get some perspective before you waste your life and happiness getting worked up about this."

[DrFaroohk]

Funny, usually when I hear "life isn't fair", what I hear is "Yes, I'm fucking you, but I have power and I can get away with it. Get over it."

[blas87]

I am inclined to agree with you, Doc.

Even though it's usually not worth getting your blood pressure spiked over or putting too much time into thinking about.....but at the same time, it's not fair, and that's just not right. It's not.

It really bothers me the way some people just have it out for some people, or would rather put effort into punishing one person versus everyone who does something. A coworker on another shift comiserated with me and told me that she gets the brunt of the "punishments" for talking too much, when the guys on her shift also go without any trouble.

[DrFaroohk]

I know it's overall better for everyone's health to just "let it go", but sometimes that feels like "letting them win". By just accepting it you make it easier for the next guy to get fucked.

That's why I'm such a dick about it whenever I'm unfairly treated. Probably also why many people dislike me now lol...but I like to let people know that they cannot treat others that way and that it's not right. And if you treat me unfairly I'll treat you unfairly. Hey, you know that sociopathic ex-con living down the street? the guy who's 6'5 and has a severe rage problem? Yeah well, he might get the notion that you're fucking his wife. you know that dangerous drug dealer down the street who just got out of jail? Well, he might think it was you who tipped off the cops. See what happens when you're such a dick?

[blas87]

I don't seek revenge on people, at work or outside of work, because I was tattled on or was given the brunt of the punishment for something that others were also doing. I just take it as a lesson that I am disliked by someone (or a group of people?) and that I need to be more careful. Now, if it becomes harrassment (like it was years ago at work) then I'll go higher up until I get the solution I want. But as of now, I just take it as people being retards and bosses/shift leads who would rather pin the blame on the only girl on the shift as being the "instigator" instead of punishing all the guys for not having an attention span.

[HYHYBT]

I'm usually one of the ones complaining that "He or she did it too!"

My reasoning? Look at it like this: You are punished for offense A. But James was not punished for Offense A. Why not? If the rule is that Offense A is bad, then both of you should be punished. Otherwise, Offense A is NOT bad, and no one needs to be punished. But if you get punished and James didn't, well, it obviously has nothing to do with the rule itself or the Offense in question, because if it did, both of you would have been punished.

That means its no longer about the rules or the Offense, it's become personal. Someone is dicking with you for personal gain. They may deny it, and in that case they're welcome to prove it - punish James as well for the same Offense. Not going to huh? I rest my case. Someone's dicking around and they're gonna get what's coming to them.

Well, again, there *can* be good reasons to make an exception (as well as good reasons not to discuss one employee's disciplinary measures with another; very unprofessional.) For example: McDonald's had a rule against cell phones. I carried mine anyway, and nobody had a problem with it. Why not? Because it benefitted the store. The rule was to stop people taking too many personal calls, texting when they were supposed to be taking money, etc. But I virtually never placed or received personal calls at work. I *did* use the phone for business, because unlike the store phone, it 1) could call every number I might need to call (because of previous abuse, the store's phone could not call long distance, not even to several other stores in the franchise or to the store manager's home or cell); 2) contained most such numbers; 3) could be used from anywhere on the property, allowing me to do work *while* calling tech support or trying to get someone to cover a shift; 4) let me email the Drive-Thru times to the store manager after dinner rush every day; 5) allowed the store manager to call me without long distance charges (and to get through if day shift had disabled the phone yet AGAIN so as not to have to hear it ring during lunch) etc., etc.

[DrFaroohk]

Oh I'm down with exceptions. Even if it doesn't necessarily benefit the store. Say you have two employees, both committed some sort of wrong. 1 guy does this every damn day. maybe it's time you wrote him up or suspended him. The other guy - first time. Maybe he can just get a warning.

But when both employees commit the wrong and both suck or even the superior employee gets punished but the shitty employee gets to keep his job, something's up.

[blas87]

I can see exceptions as well, but I'm also with Doc in the fact that there's something more going on.

Yes, it's unprofessional to disclose punishments. Although, we've all seen, they aways get leeked somehow, by someone (or multiple people). Someone always breaks the code of silence.

It's just not fair, and downright lazy by some in charge, to punish the better employee or to just pinpoint the person they think would be the most affected by it. I sincerely believe part of the reason that notoriously slacking or insubordinate employees continue to behave the way they do is because they know they can get away with it. In a lazy manager's eyes, coming down hard on a good employee (for even a minor offense) will put them in their place and set them straight and instill "fear" that they could lose their job, so scaring them will supposedly keep them from re-offending. But continually letting less productive, extremely insubordinate or flakey employees get away with murder is not a good idea, because they will always float on the fact that they don't ever have to own up to anything they do. This was the biggest case for my former coworker Drunken Victim. There were others who had been written up or fired for way more minor offenses, most of them very good, dependable workers. Unfortunately, the DV's that we all work with usually end up quitting or finding other jobs instead of being fired and made to face the consequences of their actions.

I guess in all that babble, I'm leaning pretty hard on the idea that it's an easy tactic for managers who don't want to deal with the bigger issues, and they are too lazy or just don't want to do their job. And even though punishment is supposed to be kept secret, everyone ends up finding out, and it grows a lot of resentment and anger and hostility in the workplace.

I've grown a lot of resentment towards some of the boys I work with, because I will always be punished for minor things (or things I don't even do), before they will even be considered in the wrong. Even in the most common situation, where they are already in a conversation that I just add to, while I manage to keep working while adding in my two cents, they constantly quit working and just keep talking.........for whatever reason, they see it easier to blame me and pinpoint me as the instigator, rather than see the big picture that these guys cannot multitask.