vaping is NOT smoking

[telecom_goddess]

This thread on cs http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...d.php?t=109661 kinda went against my grain. Everyone calls vaping "smoking" and it's NOT smoking it's vaping, there is a HUGE difference. Smoke is caused by fire, vapor is not. There is nothing on fire in an e cig and there is no second hand smoke issues. People should be allowed to vape anywhere they goddamn please. They seem to get banned in all the same places as smoking and it's ridiculous.

Afraid I have to side with the customer on this one.

[protege]

But, if they're a customer...they're subject to the rules and whims of the establishment. Their property, their rules. Plus, it's also on the sign.

[gremcint]

actually there can be second hand issues, allergies. some scents give me a giant headache.

[Greenday]

actually there can be second hand issues, allergies. some scents give me a giant headache.

Pretty sure that's not the second hand smoke the majority of people are talking about.

[Dreamstalker]

Exactly. protege: their property, their rules. Scents and additives can cause allergies and problems for other customers as well as employees.

NB: I'm taking medication that has a warning "avoid smoking and secondhand smoke". Not knowing exactly what in the cigarette smoke would cause problems (and knowing that I might have a genetic predisposition to related health issues) I try to avoid it in any form.

There are bad chemicals in e-cig vapor; diethylene glycol--banned in anything designed for human consumption--as well as a few other known carcinogens which I assume can be transmitted in the vapor. Yes, they lack the tar and other contaminants of real secondhand smoke but can still be harmful.

(if e-cig cartridges contain nicotine, how are they not classed as a drug delivery device...right, because regulation--which IMO would benefit the devices)

[Andara Bledin]

People should be allowed to vape anywhere they goddamn please.

No, they should absolutely not be allowed ot vape anywhere they want.

I'd rather sit next to a smoker than a vaper. Smoke is hot (burning material, so yeah) so the smoke rises, then the ash falls. Vaping vapor is merely warm so it tends to just sort of sit around in the air like an invisible gas cloud.

Pretty sure that's not the second hand smoke the majority of people are talking about.

Good thing he didn't say smoke, then, right?

There are issues with vaping vapor for a not insignificant number of people (myself notably included), and if an establishment doesn't have a robust air circulation system, vaping vapor is worse for sticking around than cigarette smoke.

Plus, knowing how vaping works, I'd much rather not have people vaping around food. That's just gross.

[wolfie]

There is nothing on fire in an e cig and there is no second hand smoke issues. People should be allowed to vape anywhere they goddamn please.

Afraid I have to side with the customer on this one.

Clearly you haven't bought the right brand of made-in-China e-cigs if you think there's nothing on fire. As for the second-hand smoke, some of the replies here are from people with adverse reactions to second-hand e-cig vapour.

I'd side with the restaurant on this one. "E-cig user" is not a protected class, so they're within their rights to ban e-cigs, just like they're within their rights to ban the wearing of UFC T-shirts. Some governments (Toronto is one) are updating their smoking bylaws to explicitly treat e-cigs the same as actual smouldering tobacco.

[BlaqueKatt]

There are bad chemicals in e-cig vapor; diethylene glycol--banned in anything designed for human consumption--as well as a few other known carcinogens which I assume can be transmitted in the vapor.

propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, nicotine, water, and flavoring. That's it, the PG, VG, and flavorings are food grade or pharmaceutical grade.
(there is one highly criticized study* that showed, with altered devices, that PG produces formaldehyde when used at a power level that standard devices cannot achieve), and one study found 9 contaminates, as opposed to the 11,000 in tobacco smoke.

That being said, some people do have issues with aerosol PG. I smoke, and am switching to e-cigs at some point, however if anyone can't manage to go the time it takes to shop without nicotine, there's a problem. Seriously nicotine has a half life of 90 minutes or so in the body. I don't smoke nor will I vape around others(it's rude), or in a confined space. It's called not being a dick.

*single study syndrome-the e-cigs had to be disassembled and altered to achieve the conclusions the researcher wanted to find, as he couldn't find anything at normal use levels. Then claims(without evidence)"tons of people use them this way, because I see lots of vapor"-VG base produces much more vapor than the PG he was testing.

[Andara Bledin]

For me, it's the nicotine in the vapor that reduces me to a massive and painful coughing fit. Cigarette smoke has bothered me for as long as I've been around it, but because of the heat of the smoke, it pretty quickly rises out of head height, and then it falls pretty quickly below. Vapor, however, has this tendency to just sort of haze the elevation at which I'm trying to breathe, and it does a massive number on me.

As I've mentioned in other threads, my first exposure was when my mother visited after getting hers. She'd do her thing at the other end of a 30ft room, and a minute later I'd be having a coughing fit. I'd thought it was just the fact that I was still getting over a pretty nasty cold, but when she did it in the car the next day, I nearly had to pull over, it was so bad. That's when I put two and two together, and I didn't have another coughing fit for the entire visit.

The worst part is that unless you know someone is doing it, you don't always know someone is doing it, so if someone does have a reaction, they might not even know why.

[bainsidhe]

I'm also bothered by vapor and am grateful I've only encountered it in an outside setting. The vapor will start me coughing if the wind brings it in my direction, I can't imagine what it would be like in a closed-up space.

So no, I don't think people should be allowed to vape wheresoever they please.

[blas87]

My work banned smoking in 2011, but after littering complaints and probably all other issues, confined us to one outdoor area in 2013 to smoke, and that includes e-cigs.

Quite a few of my coworkers switched to e-cigs, and they seem to cloud nine themselves every puff. It doesn't bother me, since I already smoke regular smokes anyway, but I can see where both would bother anyone who doesn't do either.

[anakhouri]

I've never encountered a vaper but it just seems like common courtesy to me to do anything that involves clouds of something to do it outside, away from other people.