Obama's health plans

[Rapscallion]

News reports over here are displaying a huge amount of 'omg commies are going to take over our health business!' type outrage from the anti-health reform types.

My first response is that the people complaining are those who are either the ones profiting from the current system, or those who are paid by them.

I really think a health system open to all would work for the US as long as it learns lessons from the UK - no bollocks about "It would affect my personal esteem, so give me a boob job free!" type stuff, but basic healthcare that is purely essential.

After all, there cannot really be anything wrong in helping your fellow countrymen.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

After all, there cannot really be anything wrong in helping your fellow countrymen.

Unless it means you have to do the helping yourself. Humans are selfish by nature. Unless it totally profits them, they will absolutely hesitate to help other people.

That and people for some reason think socialism = communism and of course everyone knows communism = bad. People are cheap, already profiting from the current system, or just plain believe all the BS those who don't want health care are putting out there.

[Mr Slugger]

I'm one of those people here that thinks the healthcare system is totally screwed up at all levels.

And I definitely think that some of these people that are coming out against the health plan are people that profit off the system as it is. Because I think alot profit off the system and how it is. I also think though that some are also just believing mis-information, as well as you've got people that fear change, and then you've got people who just want it done right.

And on a personal standpoint I do live in Massachusetts, which already has implemented universal health care, and let me tell you it sucks. Mostly because they did nothing to solve the problems, just told everyone to get health insurance or we'll whack you on income taxes. The plans are expensive, and the deductibles are high, it now takes sometimes months to get in to see a doctor, and get something taken care of. And to the doctors it's just business as usually.

So for me. I'm not entirely ready to jump in the car, because if they don't do this right it'll screw us all over. Like for me I pay about $900 a month for a family plan, and have to pay a $2,000 deductible before the health insurance even kicks in. And last year I paid $11k to the health insurance company and $9,000 in medical bills, and it only stopped because we hit out maximum out of pocket amount. Now sure we had a baby last year. But so far this year on routine medical appointments were already over the $5k mark. So to be paying $1,500 or so a month to medical that's not really affordable.

(Sorry if I rambled)

[lordlundar]

My big concern is what it's going to lead to. Already the GoP pundits, who are the source of a lot of the misinformation, have been promoting hostile resistance to the current administration. Lately they have been encouraging people to carry loaded weapons to the town hall meetings to preserve their second amendment rights (which the pundits have been declaring that Obama is going to destroy it completely).

Now these meetings have been becoming a LOT more hostile, have nearly broken out in violence on more than occasion, and weapons on site is simply going to inflame things. At a rally Obama held, a republican protester was spotted with a gun. Naturally the secret service is watching him closely, yet according to the pundits, it's Obama suppressing dissent. At some point violence is going to break out, which, given how frequently weapons are on site, is going to be met with lethal force. Then the shit really hits the fan.

This could get very bad, very fast, and I don't think anyone can stop it given the way things have been going.

[guywithashovel]

News reports over here are displaying a huge amount of 'omg commies are going to take over our health business!' type outrage from the anti-health reform types.

That would be the excruciating fear of "big government" that many people here in the US have. We have the Reagan years to thank for that.

For all the good things that The Gipper did for this country, he certainly brought a lot of crazies into the limelight.

[Tanasi]

Do a google search about how well the medical system at the Veterans Admin is run. Guess what that's government health care at it's best. I don't need to fucked in the ass to know I won't like it. I guess since I disagree that makes me a Nazi, brown shirt, Klansman.
As far as the guy carrying the gun, it didn't seem to bother the folks around him. It bothered the spineless and gutless. He didn't bother anyone and he was carrying it because he could. As far as violence goes the SEIU thugs in St. Louis are the ones that started it.

[BroomJockey]

As far as the guy carrying the gun, it didn't seem to bother the folks around him. It bothered the spineless and gutless.

Yep, those Secret Service guys sure are gutless. Fuck 'em, I say. Let the Pres handle his own damn issues. Fuck, the Canadian Prime Minister's tougher than him. After all, Jean Cretien managed to choke a protester, why can't your Pres take a bullet or two?

And considering how well your private health care's run, I gotta agree there, too. Lose a limb to tetanus or miss a month's rent is a wonderful choice.

[Mr Slugger]

As far as the guy carrying the gun, it didn't seem to bother the folks around him. It bothered the spineless and gutless. He didn't bother anyone and he was carrying it because he could.

Now I'm not sure if the gun thing is from New Hampshire or not, but I know there was a knife/gun incident in New Hampshire. Now while it was stupid to show up at that rally armed (the gun was in his car the knife on him) It's perfectly legal in New Hampshire to my understanding to carry weapons unconcealed.

The Veterans Admin I think is somewhat different. From my understanding they don't want to get that involved in health care. But you never know. The thing that concerns me is they seem to want to just slam health care fix on the desk and say fixed. And I don't think it can be fixed like that. I mean there's so many problems in the health care system as it is now.

And there's definitely resistance from the industry that needs to be broken. I mean for instance they've been trying to bring minute clinics into this state, but the health care industry is fighting them because they "can't do what seeing the doctor can do", and you never know when a problem is something more the problem. Now my wife has been to the doctor herself and with that baby over a dozen times, and she's seen a nurse practitioner ever time except once. (which is what you'd see at a minute clinic) So what's the difference, except the price of a visit. And I mean sometimes it's for something like a sinus or ear infection where you know exactly what it is all you need is the medicine to treat it, but if you go to the doctor they seem to dig for gold, because they want to test for this and that, and that, and after all the tests are done it's just a sinus/ear infection.

I mean I think that they need to get rid of the incentive plan for tests. I swear doctors have a chart somewhere that shows how much they can make off of certain symptoms, and try to go for it all.

[AdminAssistant]

The American system is broken and needs a lot of fixing. Right now, our system benefits (in order): 1) insurance companies, 2) pharmaceutical companies, 3) doctors, and 4) the wealthy.

I'm currently very lucky, in that my University has a wonderful health clinic with many MD's and NP's on staff. Of course, we're also a very large and decently funded university, and students at smaller institutions are usually SOL. The health clinic here has free visits, minimal charges for lab work and after-hours urgent care, and an in-house pharmacy. And, as a TA, I receive a discounted rate on an insurance policy purchase through the school, that's a little over $100/semester. That's actually a recent move that was pushed by the state GTA union because of our near poverty level salaries.

So, right now, things are okay for me. My folks, however, are having a really hard time. My mom's a cancer survivor. She has to have mammograms every year and has to have continual check-ups with her oncologist. That's not negotiable. And yet, some years she has to go without because of lack of quality insurance. As a cancer survivor, no company wants to take her. I have another friend who has asthma, but is otherwise healthy. Very few companies will offer him health insurance, and those that do refuse to cover his asthma meds. What are his options?

Personally, I fully support going for a single-payer universal plan similar to what you guys have up in Canadalandia. But I know that will never happen in this country since that might, you know, benefit poor people who should really just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and overcome like a good little American. *sigh* Failing that....I mean, isn't there some fat we can cut out somewhere? That's the real problem with our system - so much of the money winds up in the hands of insurance company execs and pharm company CEOs who do.....NOTHING!

As far as the folks who come to town halls armed...Dude, I did not think you could carry a weapon when you're around the President. That's just....huh? Even with all the 2nd Amendment stuff, there are places you can't take a gun, concealed or no. Schools and government buildings are some examples. I would think, "Around the POTUS" would fall under that somewhere.

[lordlundar]

Failing that....I mean, isn't there some fat we can cut out somewhere? That's the real problem with our system - so much of the money winds up in the hands of insurance company execs and pharm company CEOs who do.....NOTHING!

That's the problem. The "fat" (ie the Execs and such who simply exist) are using the money they bring in from their clients and customers (I love how in the US people are referred as such before their considered patients) to pay off the representatives and the "Liberal" media (which has proven to be so much more a GOP mouthpiece than liberal one) to spread the lies and misinformation to incite the panic on an already gullible group for the explicit purpose of saving their own profits. And in the US, the one the money is the one with the ability to get their word out. So it's hard to counter them when they can just throw money to get their opponents shut out.

It's no different than the RIAA, MPAA, and ESA suing everyone and their brother for anything they can think of, simply to stay relevant and rake in the money they don't deserve.

[AFPheonix]

I wish Obama was able to get a decent plan passed. But he won't be able to. There's too much health industry PAC money floating about in the Senate for that to happen. Max Baucus, chair of the Health committee is bought and paid for, and he's a Democrat.
It's not just Republicans. It's all of them. Granted, the far right are the ones putting out those idiotic talking points about "Death Panels" and health rationing (we have rationing now, it goes to people with money) and wait times (apparently none of these people have gone to an ER lately) blah blah blah.

The plans being bantered about in Congress are already neutered in a spirit of "bipartisanship". They're considering making it mandatory to buy coverage, but not make insurance companies make plans affordable. If that isn't giving the middle finger to the poor I don't know what is. look ma, congress has no testicular fortitude!
If we want health reform in this country, we are simply going to have to do it state by state or region by region. Even Canada couldn't get federal reform in the 60's, y'all had to get it by province before the federal government got their heads out of their asses. Insurance companies did their damndest to stop it too. They bussed in people to spew lies at hearings then, much as they are doing now at our town hall meetings.

Regardless, we have to do something. We as a nation pay far more for our coverage:


And we are less healthy despite all that money:


I would love to see us get a plan as efficient and good as Germany's. I love you Canadians, but you guys have one of the worst UHC out there. Despite all that, your citizens STILL get better care than ours. Go fucking figure.

[BroomJockey]

I would love to see us get a plan as efficient and good as Germany's. I love you Canadians, but you guys have one of the worst UHC out there.

Yet if I'm reading that graph correctly, it's better than Germany's in that second, and very close to the same expendature in the first.

[AFPheonix]

There's a lot of ways to compare plans. This is really long and complicated but pretty decent comparison.
The problem with Canada is that the land is so large and people are so spread out that it's hard to get adequate care to all of you equally. So a good portion of your very rural population do have to wait a bit for care because you have doctors that make circuits around small towns and may only be around a few days per week at best. That makes fodder for the Glenn Becks and Hannitys and their minions down here for bellowing about communism and how it's so bad for us, when in reality it would save us all so much money and heartache and worry.
We have more people down here so I think that will be less of a problem in the States. Unfortunately, even getting something off the ground is going to be an absolutely herculean effort and will involve reform in a lot of areas besides just health care.
Campaign finance reform is going to probably be one of the largest. We are not a representative democracy anymore, we are an oligarchy. We are ruled by corporations with different representatives in companies' pockets. It's really disheartening and the discourse on this subject has done more to bring that home for me than any other.

[BroomJockey]

The problem with Canada is that the land is so large and people are so spread out that it's hard to get adequate care to all of you equally.

Oi, that's the cause of a lot of issues. Maybe we should just import half your population. XD

[Pedersen]

Oi, that's the cause of a lot of issues. Maybe we should just import half your population. XD

I'll agree with that. But it has to be the half that voted for W twice.