Illegal immigration...

[Greenday]

I honestly like the idea. You actually have to do something for the country to gain citizen ship. You have to actually EARN your way.

Would you like to know more?

[rahmota]

Greenday: yeah that is one of my major inspirations. A lot of the political ideas Heinlein had and which run through his works make a good bit of sense to me.

Some of the works like To Us the Living, Starship Troopers and The Moon is Harsh Mistress have social ideas that could work if given a chance in reality.

[Greenday]

rahmota, that sounds a lot like one of the early scenes from Starship Troopers. I mean, it plays a huge part of the movie so I wouldn't be surprised if that gave you the idea.

[rahmota]

Over on the draft thread I posted this thought and it would work here too.

Service grants citizenship.

Right now a person is born they get the "right" to drive, vote, have access to food stamps, afdc, all sorts of free govt programs, as well as full protection of the constitution and bill of rights of the united states of america. You cross the border you fill out some papers you wait and then viola you have the same rights as someone born here.

Most americans havent really earned their rights either but thats a rant for something else. But an easy way for an outsider to gain citizenship would be to use them, their skills and their abilities in some sort of compulsory service. Be it military, or civil. You serve 5 years and then you get your citizenship. During that 5 year period they are taught civic pride, duty and a sense of citizenship as well as the language, laws and practical aspects of america. (somethign I think some americans could use as well) Yeah this might seem to some to be just a cheap source of labor and conscripts for the military as no doubt a lot of people would take that route for one reason or another but it is not much different than having corporate america exploit illegals. And at least this way they gain their citizenship through honest work and not just sneaking in.

Anyhow its just an idea thats been rattling around and finally escaped. SO what do you think?

[AFPheonix]

Gangs are a form of organized crime. There's quite a few of the older gangs that have gotten quite crafty and are making a lot of money off of the drug trade.

"Unorganized" crime as you put it has its roots in other problems and isn't nearly as insidious as organized crime. Your standard street thug might mug a few people on the street. The Mob infiltrated Government on several levels.

So, I will have to heartily disagree with you. Neither are a good thing, I will grant, but I'd rather take one stupid street tough who gets his stupid ass shot over something stupid over the wolf in sheep's clothing who's hobnobbing with one hand and shaking down other people with the other.

[Greenday]

Those days saw the formation of Irish and Italian gangs and the beginnings of organized crime.

Better organized than the unorganized crime we see today. Hell, gangs these days will shoot ANYONE without reason.

[Boozy]

I am not being racist, I am just merely pointing out that during the enormous European immigration of the early 1900s, you didn't see looters and "illegal alien pride" parades and the ridiculous things you see illegal immigrants doing these days.

Those days saw the formation of Irish and Italian gangs and the beginnings of organized crime.

Most Irish and Italian immigrants didn't want to become criminals in their new homeland, but racism often prevented them from getting jobs.

[blas87]

I think the whole point is that my great and great-great grandparents came to this country to Ellis Island in the early 1900s LEGALLY. They traveled to find farming type jobs (yes, grunt work). But they flourished.

I am not being racist, I am just merely pointing out that during the enormous European immigration of the early 1900s, you didn't see looters and "illegal alien pride" parades and the ridiculous things you see illegal immigrants doing these days.

It's a whole other discussion in itself, but if any of the European immigrants committed a murder or other crime of any sort, he or she would do the proper time. There was no choice of going back.

[CancelMyService]

Well the Cuba stuff was more an offshoot of the Cold War and "OMG COMMIEZ~!" than immigration and potential racism (although that may have been an added bonus for some).

I'd be more willing to believe the current fuss is not racially biased if it wasn't for the fact that there are two countries bordering the US, and we want to build walls and have crazies with guns patrol the one that 1) Is shorter 2) Hasn't been a known entry point for terrorists 3) Has brown people on the other side.

[Nightwolf]

Skin color has a lot to do with it since a vast majority of the people upset at immigrants seem to only focus on Hispanic ones.

I assume this is because of the vast majority of political and media coverage on this. I agree that we don't hear enough about every illiegal in this country from other areas, but could it be that the biggest concentration of offenders is coming from the same area?

I could actually see the same argument coming from anywhere if it was as big of a case. Remember the big deal with Cuba and all the immigrants floating over on boats? I'd like to think that really wasn't color either. I really do think it's where the biggest concentration is coming from at present time. But of course, this is all just my opinion formed by what i'm fed through the bullcrap machine that is known as "the media"

[Boozy]

We get more illegal immigrants from Canada yearly than we do from the countries south of us. Oddly, I've never heard one peep about building a wall along our northern border before....

Hee hee. My (Canadian) uncle was an illegal immigrant in the US for a while. He's a high-ranking executive with a major corporation...due to government bureaucracy, it took so long getting his work visa in order that he ended up living as an "illegal" in Detroit for a year and a half.

We had a lot of fun at his expense over that one.

[AFPheonix]

We get more illegal immigrants from Canada yearly than we do from the countries south of us. Oddly, I've never heard one peep about building a wall along our northern border before....

[CancelMyService]

Skin color has a lot to do with it since a vast majority of the people upset at immigrants seem to only focus on Hispanic ones. When someone rails against "illegals" they aren't usually talking about the Asian lady at the nail salon who may or may not have done all the paperwork to be here legally.

[Nightwolf]

I really don't think this has a lot to do with skin color as much as it does other issues. Like many mentioned in previous posts. Like the example of companies hiring these workers over legal US citizens to save money. Thats just a whole level of unethical crap I just can't stand.

I personally have a major issue with illegals when they come over, make no attempt at becoming a citizen, and then commit crimes thinking they have a "right" to our system when they aren't even a citizen. THATS where my major beef is.

[Rapscallion]

Thirdly, it's funny to see so many people in this country being all "RAHHH IMMIGRANTS!!" since unless you're Native American, you come from immigrants.

There's some thought that the Native Americans originally came from Mongolia over the ice bridge to Alaska. Several similarities exist, such as lack of facial hair etc.

I guess we're all immigrants from somewhere. When seems to be the important part.

Rapscallion