memorial day shenanigans have vets pissed

[HYHYBT]

I believe part of it is, not so much that the war was a loss per se, but that it was a long, stupid, pointless mess. And part, also, is the nature of the memorial: simply a list of names, carved in stone. Many, many people now living and able to go see it, whether they were in that war or not, knew some of those names as real people. It's hard to explain (and I only felt it secondhand watching others, because I'm of the wrong time and had no relatives that I know of in that particular war) but that can have a powerful effect on some people.

I don't know what the design of the WWII memorial is, but it's far too new. It should have been built around 1950; instead, it came along late enough that most of the people who knew the people who died in that war are either dead themselves or unable to make the trip. Around here, a lot of towns have memorials for the Civil War. Somebody keeps the grass trimmed and changes the flag when it starts to fade, but otherwise they're mostly ignored, because, though somebody who knew their genealogy and looked might find an ancestor listed, nobody living knew them.

[bex1218]

Its sad, I thanked a Vet the other night at work and he was telling me how he was in Vietnam (not even the frontlines) and could not take pride in being in the Navy (even with losing the war). Sad that they have to thank me for thanking them.

[Duelist925]

One day I may make it to the memorial and see my father's name. He was MIA so his name made it onto the wall. He actually survived the war, him and only one other guy in his platoon. He didn't know how, but his friend got him out and they wound up in CA. He died when I was 15 from complications from Agent Orange, which the government now admits to using.

I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope you can make it to the memorial some day.

[Akasa]

One day I may make it to the memorial and see my father's name. He was MIA so his name made it onto the wall. He actually survived the war, him and only one other guy in his platoon. He didn't know how, but his friend got him out and they wound up in CA. He died when I was 15 from complications from Agent Orange, which the government now admits to using.

[daleduke17]

That all makes sense, protege, heyna and duelist. Thank you for the rational, thought out discussion on it and not just saying I was trashing the people who served (which I am not doing).

[protege]

There's also, as he points out, the vets are still alive. But not only that, the vets are still alive and, while not young and active (most Gulf War vets would be in their thirties/forties) old enough that they need help.

My dad served in Vietnam, in the Navy. He served on a carrier, but his main job was to serve as one of the media escorts. He got lucky. Sure, he did see some combat, but he wasn't on the front lines. Once his tours were over, he was able to come home, go to grad school (under the GI bill), and his life returned to normal. Not all of his fellow soldiers were able to do that. Some were left so fucked up by the war...that they're still having problems, some 40 years after we pulled out.

Imagine coming home from watching your buddies get killed...and having your country turn its back on you. Imagine being jeered, spit on, and harassed by protestors. Imagine having to deal with flashbacks from combat, and not being able to hold down a job because of it. Unlike WWII, Korea, and the Gulf War vets...there was no ticker-tape parade when we pulled out of Vietnam. Instead, it was a "you're home, you're own your own" type of situation. Those vets had (and some still do) to deal with some serious shit. Some lost their families, their homes, and their jobs. Where were the social programs to help them? Simply put, there aren't any.

Sorry, but I have a *serious* problem with how this country treats those who serve. Dad (and Grandpa) once said that a person is never the same after seeing war. Our vets should be taken care of, and they're not. We have the Jersey Shore rejects making millions per episode, and we have vets living in cardboard boxes under overpasses. What the fuck?

[Hyena Dandy]

There's also, as he points out, the vets are still alive. But not only that, the vets are still alive and, while not young and active (most Gulf War vets would be in their thirties/forties) old enough that they need help.

The other thing about the Vietnam war is, well... We LOST. I mean, you can look at Korea and say "We tied that one" but you can't look at Vietnam and come away with anything but "That was a loss."

That's why it plays so heavy in our psyche. Because it was a war that we didn't win. We tied Korea. We tied 1812. But that one we decisively lost.

That sticks in the consciousness of a country that puts so much of its faith in its military, and so much of its pride in its military. We have a HUGE military budget. We have a HUGE military. And somehow, despite all we had, we lost that war.

And that sticks.

Edit: It's kind of like sports, in a way... I mean, I live in Boston. We're used to having winning records for most of our teams around here. The Patriots, the Red Sox, the Bruins, and the Celtics all regularly make it into the playoffs. There was a huge sense of confusion and anger when the Red Sox DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS last year. As a Red Sox or Bruins or Patriots or Celtics fan, that one time you DON'T win, when every other time you have, you consider it great.

[Duelist925]

Had this been any other memorial, no one would have cared....but because it is the Vietnam Memorial, it apparently must always be accessible....why do people make such a big deal out of the Vietnam "War" and Vietnam Memorial? World War I & II were a lot larger of a war (and actually a war). Korea seems to be one of the least spoken about wars, and Gulf War I & II (and whatever stupid name they are calling the operations today) are talked about because of the proximity of them to current day.

I don't know if I'm missing something, but I don't understand the big deal of Vietnam.

Vietnam was the first war America fought that was not supported by a large potion of the populace. The first war openly protested.

It was the first war that really publicized the rivers of shit and blood our troops waded through, and brought home how badly that affected them. and in what ways.

Not to mention, it was also, if I remember correctly, the first war where we dealt with sever geurilla tactics, as opposed to the trench warfare of the WW's.

And its close enough to us, chronologically, for a decent chunk of the vets to still be alive.

So, combining all that together....yeah.

[daleduke17]

Had this been any other memorial, no one would have cared....but because it is the Vietnam Memorial, it apparently must always be accessible....why do people make such a big deal out of the Vietnam "War" and Vietnam Memorial? World War I & II were a lot larger of a war (and actually a war). Korea seems to be one of the least spoken about wars, and Gulf War I & II (and whatever stupid name they are calling the operations today) are talked about because of the proximity of them to current day.

I don't know if I'm missing something, but I don't understand the big deal of Vietnam.

[Hyena Dandy]

Additionally, note the use of the phrase "This year"

In other words, "This happens every memorial day. This year, it will be..."

Edit: I think part of the reason so few people would have been seriously upset about it is, well... The veterans who visit on memorial day would probably have visited before. Having the big event wouldn't be a shock to them. Maybe "Oh, okay, the President's there. That's why I can't go in yet."

[Duelist925]

most of the news networks focused on the speech itself and not the others who were blocked from attending while it happened.

or are you doubting that he gave a speech there at all?

Because the speech itself was news.


People being blocked from an area that the President of the United States is going to be speaking in is NOT news.

Especially when it's been scheduled beforehand, and that info was easily accessable.

Oh, and as other have pointed out? Some special ceremony or other happened at a war memorial on Memorial Day, on a signifigant anniversary....shocking.

[HYHYBT]

I see two possible answers: The outrage is now because it's *Obama* and everything he does must be painted as evil in some way and, because he's a Democrat, also anti-military if at all possible. (People pulled the same sort of [nonsense] when Clinton was president.)

OR it's a case of "I came all this way to be here today and how dare *I* be inconvenienced by a public event just because I didn't bother checking the schedule or even consider the possibility that there might be special events at a national war memorial on Memorial Day (and how DARE they do that anyway!?)"

[Nekojin]

Why is this an issue? Other presidents in the past have issued speeches at the Vietnam Memorial on Memorial Day before, and Secret Service protocols naturally involve shutting the area down for an amount of time both before and after a Presidential appearance. Where was the outrage then?

[Andara Bledin]

It seems that the "pissed visiting vets" are few and far between.

In fact, other than that screed and links to that screed, I can't seem to find anyone who was personally upset by Obama's presence at the wall to give a commencement speech due to it being the 50th anniversary of our sending troops over and the beginning of some sort of commemoration.

I'm sure they're out there, but the majority of link backs are from people who obviously weren't there or they would have given personal accounts and not just linked back to an article that is so over-the-top subjective, I'm not sure it can even be trusted to be entirely accurate.

I have to ask, however, why on the 50th anniversary, people wouldn't check the schedule to see if there was an event. Hell, doing a quick search, it appears that Memorial Day events are fairly common, not the exception.

And I like how the original article totally glosses over the fact that Obama was the keynote speaker, not the only one. Here's a post from that day's event listing for the site:

Vietnam Veterans Memorial
Monday, May 28, 2012, 1 p.m.
The Memorial Day ceremony marks the beginning of the national commemoration of the Vietnam War’s 50th anniversary program. President Obama will be the keynote speaker this year. Also scheduled to participate are: Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar; Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Martin Dempsey; Senator Chuck Hagel; Jan Scruggs, Founder and President of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund and other dignitaries. Emmy and Golden Globe award-winning actor Tom Selleck, a Vietnam-era veteran, will serve as master of ceremonies. The event is ticketed, but there will also be limited seating for the public (approx 3,000 seats) adjacent to the Memorial. All guests must pass through security check points near 21st and Constitution Ave.

^-.-^

[PepperElf]

most of the news networks focused on the speech itself and not the others who were blocked from attending while it happened.

or are you doubting that he gave a speech there at all?