"Illegal" means... uh, illegal, doesn't it?

[Tuxian]

I'm just gonna put this out there, with the statement of "What the heck are these people smoking?"

http://news.yahoo.com/fraud-concerns...155828827.html

[Greenday]

I'm just gonna put this out there, with the statement of "What the heck are these people smoking?"

Do you mean that in the sense of giving illegal immigrants a driver's license is ridiculous? Or that the people who oppose this is ridiculous.

I have to get my license renewed in March. When I go, I have to have two forms of identification in order to get a new license.

It seems pretty legit that illegal immigrants will be able to go and get a license with whatever name they want without having to prove who they are. There's no way that will get abused. /sarcasm

[Andara Bledin]

I want to know why the hell those who are already criminals are given the same privilege as law-abiding citizens, and on top of that aren't required to adhere to the same standards (re fingerprints and documents).

As for the facial recognition, I'm not sure how the hell that is supposed to be a replacement for fingerprinting in the instance that the illegal driver is also the suspect in a felony crime elsewhere in the system.

What we need, now, is for a coalition of legal citizens to file discrimination charges against the state for the new regulations being less onerous for immigration lawbreakers than everybody else.

^-.-^

[Tuxian]

A quick check on the Illinois state website reveals that, for a legal resident of the state to obtain a driver's license, they must (detail text from the DMV.org website):

Prove your Social Security number. Acceptable documents include your Social Security card, Social Security award letter, or military service record.
Provide proof of your date of birth with your birth certificate or another acceptable document.
Provide proof of your residency, such as a recent utility bill, rental agreement, or voter registration card.
Provide proof of your written signature. You may show a canceled check, major credit card, passport, mortgage agreement, or other acceptable documentation.
Pay the appropriate fee with cash or a check.

Then you have to take a written test, to prove you know the rules of the road (and that you're able to read and write at an effective level, one would hope). If you fail the test, you may retake it, up to a maximum of 3 attempts per calendar year from the date you paid the fee. The test must also be taken every 8 years, unless you have no traffic convictions.

Then once you pass the written test, you have to provide your own vehicle for the road test. After that, you get your license, valid for 4 years. Additionally, if you're from out-of-state, you must surrender any out-of-state ID cards or driver's licenses to the DMV.

Also, from the official DMV of Illinois, here's the "acceptable proof of identity" documents. http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/pu...s/dsd_x173.pdf

What really, REALLY bugs me is that there even exist groups of "Immigrant-rights activists" in the first place. I think if you want to live and work in this country, you should have to follow the law to enter, and if you are here illegally you shouldn't be able to benefit from ANYTHING that a legal citizen has the legal right to, including getting a driver's license. And I don't buy the "roads will be safer because we're making illegals take safe driving courses and get insurance" argument the bill's sponsor is putting forth.

Andara:
The thing about fingerprints isn't required for a license, but they wanted to put it in because Utah fingerprints immigrants to ensure they don't have felony records or warrants.

[wraiths_crono]

ooohhh the illegal word... I am soo sick and tired of saying on the news "well they are just in the country illegally, they didn't do anything wrong!" (goes to a corner to rant and rave some more. ) ok phew. AZ they tried to block this for a while, but the governor got so much backlash against it I think shes going to allow it for now. and I do agree how come if I want to do something that needs ID I have to show only state authorized passport, id, birth cert to do it, what will illegals use? their Mexico/China/where-ever-ville birth certs as proof?

[TheHuckster]

This is one example of the part of politics that always gets me reeling.

We've got a problem with illegal immigration. Politicians see this, and decide instead of going with the reasonable approach of making immigration easier, or reforming the methods to accept or decline immigrants, we "resolve" the issue in the most ass-backwards way possible: By leaving them "illegal" but purposely adding loopholes and workarounds to give them the same benefits as legal immigrants and citizens.

You might as well just say 'screw it' and automatically grant everyone citizenship just for stepping over the border.

I have no problem with immigrants, and I know that there are plenty of immigrants who go through due process to become legal citizens, and if we can reform the policies to make productive and upstanding immigrants citizens more easily, I'm 100% supportive. But let's actually do that. A lot of these demands from those supporting things like the OP reeks of EWness.

[Andara Bledin]

I think that's most of my problem with most of these measures as well.

It's indirectly rewarding those who chose to cheat the system by allowing them to continue to derive benefits without having to clear the same hurdles.

Not only is it insulting to naturally-born citizens, but it's like a slap in the face to everybody who made the effort to come here legally - as if their hard work and effort was just a big waste of time.

I don't begrudge them the opportunity to become citizens; I do resent that they choose to shortcut the system and are allowed to get away with it. >_<

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

One of my former bosses had a weird perspective on it. He was deeply sympathetic to illegal aliens, as he explained it, because his parents successfully fought their way through all of the legal hurdles to become legitimate American citizens (note, also, that this was a company that had a large number of people who simply didn't show up to work for close to a week when it was discovered that an Immigration Officer was sweeping businesses in the area).

What? Doesn't supporting illegals pretty much negate the nobility of their fight?

[daleduke17]

Take away the "anchor baby" bullshit and this problem would resolve itself because then there could be deportations without worrying about separating families... just toss them all onto the bus (then train/plane/boat/whatever) and send them back to where they came from.

[mikoyan29]

But what defines a citizen from not a citizen? I believe it only states that one has to be born here to be a naturalized citizen. It has been that way for a long time...why mess with it? The problem is that everyone says illegals are a problem but too many people benefit from tehm being here to actually do something. So like many other things, we'll have the kludge that we have now.

[TheHuckster]

But what defines a citizen from not a citizen? I believe it only states that one has to be born here to be a naturalized citizen. It has been that way for a long time...why mess with it? The problem is that everyone says illegals are a problem but too many people benefit from tehm being here to actually do something. So like many other things, we'll have the kludge that we have now.

If there are foreigners who are here and have not taken the necessary actions to become citizens, or at least become legal to work through green cards or visas, then something is horribly wrong with the system, and the solution isn't just to grant them automatic citizenship rights while leaving them illegal. The solution is to either make it easier to grant them citizenship if they're benefiting society or deport them if they are not. If you go down the path of granting them privileges that had previously been only attainable by citizens, simply because their illegal status gives them a disadvantage, I have a problem with that.

[mikoyan29]

If there are foreigners who are here and have not taken the necessary actions to become citizens, or at least become legal to work through green cards or visas, then something is horribly wrong with the system, and the solution isn't just to grant them automatic citizenship rights while leaving them illegal. The solution is to either make it easier to grant them citizenship if they're benefiting society or deport them if they are not. If you go down the path of granting them privileges that had previously been only attainable by citizens, simply because their illegal status gives them a disadvantage, I have a problem with that.

But this country is based on the principles that you are your own person. A person who is born here shouldn't have to pay for the sins of their parents. It wasn't their choice to come here illegally, they were just along for the ride. As the current rules are written, you only have to be born here to be a citizen. There are no riders about how your parents got here or their status when you were born. Do we really want to change years of precedent because it is convenient?

And I don't disagree with you that there is something wrong with the system but there are some that are happy with the system the way it is. If it were easier for people to become citizens or legal immigrants, they wouldn't have a pool of cheap labor to exploit. And everytime it is brought up that immigration should be easier for all involved, it becomes a left-right issue.

[crashhelmet]

Take away the "anchor baby" bullshit and this problem would resolve itself because then there could be deportations without worrying about separating families... just toss them all onto the bus (then train/plane/boat/whatever) and send them back to where they came from.

There's more to it than just the anchor baby situation. If they crack down on all of the employers providing work for the immigrants at sweatshop rates so that they can cut their costs, it will reduce the number of illegal immigrants we have coming as well.

Bailing out a sinking boat is pointless if you don't patch the hole first.

[EmiOfBrie]

But this country is based on the principles that you are your own person. A person who is born here shouldn't have to pay for the sins of their parents. It wasn't their choice to come here illegally, they were just along for the ride. As the current rules are written, you only have to be born here to be a citizen. There are no riders about how your parents got here or their status when you were born. Do we really want to change years of precedent because it is convenient?

Sadly, that philosophy does not always hold true if the child was not born in the USA. There are numerous stories coming out of kids who may have been 1 or 2 when they were taken into the USA by their parents, who are being deported at age 18 when they try to attend college simply because they were never told they were illegal aliens.

Never mind that they are culturally American, the USA is all they know, and would have no chance thrown into what, to them, is a foreign country.

EDIT: link to story about one kid's fight.
http://current.com/community/9238634...-at-age-18.htm