I can't believe I'm supporting a bunch of Liberals! :D

[cindybubbles]

This is so funny that I just HAD to post! It is more tongue-in-cheek than it is serious, though.

I wrote this for CS.com, but for some reason, maybe I didn't post it or I did and it got deleted. So here I am, since this thread could go into Fratching territory anyway.

It happened at a party that I went to last Saturday. The host of the party asked us how we voted in the Ontario election. Here's how we answered:

Me: I didn't vote, but if I did, I would have voted Liberal.
Friend #1: I voted Liberal.
Friend #2: Liberal.
Friend #3: Liberal.

and so forth, until our host delivered this funny gem:

"I'm CONSERVATIVE! I can't believe I'm supporting a bunch of Liberals!"

I think we got a good laugh out of that!

I'm so lucky to live in a country where Conservative, Liberal and other party supporters can hang out and joke around like that.

What about you? Have you ever experienced something as funny and political like this?

[AccountingDrone]

Well, I have been a registered Republican since I hit 18, and have voted in every election [local, state and national] since then [either in person or with an absentee ballot] and I am aghast at the shit that is going on with the damned Republicans. So much has shifted in the past 30+ years ... I feel like a tiny little voice crying out in the wilderness sometimes.

[Andrew B]

I've read your posts, AD, and you seem very moderate. The moderates won't regain the voice in your party until there is, at least, one more major loss.

[TheHuckster]

The political climate has gotten so polarized that I think if you ask the average person (at least where I live), they'll simply say they've disowned both parties and hope we'll be able to just get a viable third party candidate next. I'm included in that group.

People will say they voted one way or another, but many people I've talked to said regardless of who they voted for in the last election, it was very reluctant and heavyhearted.

I know it's probably not going to happen in the next election, or even in the election after that, but if things continue the way they are, where the two sides are becoming increasingly polarized and all for nothing because no matter who gets in it's the lobbyists that are truly running this country, people are going to put up enough of a stink that something is going to happen. Maybe it's a peaceful grassroots effort, but it could also be something a little more violent. I know this sounds crazy, but as more people become disillusioned by the way things are decided in Washington, the more angry they'll become.

...and this reply is exactly why your thread was removed from CS.com.

[mikoyan29]

I honestly would have voted for the Mitt Romney that was elected as governor as Massachusetts. That Mitt Romney seemed like his father in many ways. Instead we had a 1 percenter whining about how the country is full of leeches and moochers.

As for the major election part....the REpublicans keep winning at the State and Local levels, so I dunno.

[protege]

Well, I have been a registered Republican since I hit 18, and have voted in every election [local, state and national] since then [either in person or with an absentee ballot] and I am aghast at the shit that is going on with the damned Republicans. So much has shifted in the past 30+ years ... I feel like a tiny little voice crying out in the wilderness sometimes.

You too? The party, pisses me off at times. It's like they *want* to lose elections. I registered, simply because I didn't like what the Democrats were up to. Remember, I live in an area that's been under their control since the 1930s. Federal and state elections, I try to vote for candidates (of either party) based on where they stand on the issues. Sometimes that means voting for a "D," sometimes it's an "R." Same thing with local elections. County ones are a bit different. I tend to pull the "R" lever, as a protest

[Kheldarson]

The political climate has gotten so polarized that I think if you ask the average person (at least where I live), they'll simply say they've disowned both parties and hope we'll be able to just get a viable third party candidate next. I'm included in that group.

People will say they voted one way or another, but many people I've talked to said regardless of who they voted for in the last election, it was very reluctant and heavyhearted.

I know it's probably not going to happen in the next election, or even in the election after that, but if things continue the way they are, where the two sides are becoming increasingly polarized and all for nothing because no matter who gets in it's the lobbyists that are truly running this country, people are going to put up enough of a stink that something is going to happen. Maybe it's a peaceful grassroots effort, but it could also be something a little more violent. I know this sounds crazy, but as more people become disillusioned by the way things are decided in Washington, the more angry they'll become.

...and this reply is exactly why your thread was removed from CS.com.

You too? I'm a registered Libertarian at this point.

[HYHYBT]

"What about you? Have you ever experienced something as funny and political like this?"

No; around here, we send our political jokes to Atlanta.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Rapscallion]

You too? The party, pisses me off at times. It's like they *want* to lose elections.

Tell me about it. Looking at things from this side of the pond, it's as if they're screaming out, "We will fuck you sideways if you vote for us!" and people still give them their ballots.

That's the really scary thing.

Is there an alternative? I'm not familiar enough with the US political system to work out if libertarianism is acceptable to most fiscal republicans. The social republicans have their claws in a death grip and it's going to take a massive protest vote to even try to wrest them out of the party.

Rapscallion

[wolfie]

Raps, assuming you're using the same definition of "fiscal conservative" that I am (not to be taken for granted - after all, "pants" and "chips" have different meanings for us), Libertarians are the ultimate fiscal conservatives. Basically, they argue that anything that's not essential for running the country (road system, military in case of foreign invasion, etc) needs to be got rid of because it's a drain on the resources of individuals (through taxes). They'd support the legalization of marijuana (or at least stop dedicating enforcement resources to clamping down on it) not because they approve of it, but because anti-pot law enforcement costs too much money without a visible benefit to society.

[AccountingDrone]

I've read your posts, AD, and you seem very moderate. The moderates won't regain the voice in your party until there is, at least, one more major loss.

I do have some somewhat odd views on things, but I rarely let party politics control me. I sort of regret that I never agreed to let my dad get me into politics [I actually have a degree in poly sci with a minor in psych as well as my national registry and cert as a paralegal and a degree in accounting] because I could have possibly clawed my way high enough to be exerting some sort of influence now. [my paternal family goes way back as behind the throne types in US politics.]

You too? The party, pisses me off at times. It's like they *want* to lose elections. I registered, simply because I didn't like what the Democrats were up to. Remember, I live in an area that's been under their control since the 1930s. Federal and state elections, I try to vote for candidates (of either party) based on where they stand on the issues. Sometimes that means voting for a "D," sometimes it's an "R." Same thing with local elections. County ones are a bit different. I tend to pull the "R" lever, as a protest

I have always made it policy to research the elections instead of voting party line. I think people who blindly vote without researching the current state of whatever the election is over are insane. Look at how Mittens changed between his gubernatorial election and the pussilanimous garbage he was spewing this time around.

Raps, assuming you're using the same definition of "fiscal conservative" that I am (not to be taken for granted - after all, "pants" and "chips" have different meanings for us), Libertarians are the ultimate fiscal conservatives. Basically, they argue that anything that's not essential for running the country (road system, military in case of foreign invasion, etc) needs to be got rid of because it's a drain on the resources of individuals (through taxes). They'd support the legalization of marijuana (or at least stop dedicating enforcement resources to clamping down on it) not because they approve of it, but because anti-pot law enforcement costs too much money without a visible benefit to society.

However they can take it too far. If you unfund the military, then we have nothing to defend our overseas possessions [and yes we still have territories overseas] our citizens while outside the country [Benghazi] and to honor our treaties [we won't go into this other than to mention our various treaties are why we have gotten into more fights that garnered us the bad press. These morons forget that to have many of the advantages of trade agreements and such, we have to actually uphold the treaties we signed, and unfortunately many of them were mutual assistance types requiring us to send troop support over. It isn't that we wanted to become the worlds policeman, we signed up for it.] If we were to change to a pay for play rule about social welfare issues, then nobody would pitch in money for welfare and then whinge their asses off because there wasn't the funding to give them welfare. People in general are *not* altruists. You have to hold them down and twist a nut to get much of anything out of them for anybody but themselves.

Yup, cynical much ... *sigh*

[Jester]

The minute I turned 18, my would-have-been-a-hippie-if-I'd-been born-20-years-older ass registered as a Democrat. It took me four whole years to get utterly disgusted by the party to withdraw from it in 1992. (Thanks, Clinton!) That is not to say I went out and joined the Republicans. Oh no. I am, socially speaking, a diehard liberal. I think people should smoke what they want to smoke, love who they want to love, and worship who and how they want to worship without some asshat with their panties in a bind being allowed legally to tell them they can't do that. I'm in favor of drug legalization despite the fact that the only drug I partake of is alcohol, which is legal.

Fiscally, I'm more middle of the road. I do see the benefit in some social programs, but I also see why some people think that we spend too much on people who don't want to do shit but collect checks. (Though I don't believe that those people are the majority or even a large minority of those collecting assistance checks.) There are many Republican financial positions that make sense to me.

So overall, you'd probably call me me a liberal, and I'd be fine with that. Do I have friends who are conservative? Absolutely. My friend Six is a diehard conservative, though if you press him, he'll admit that he, just like me, is not registered for any party. He leans right, I lean left. We generally get along. (We share a lot of nonpolitical interests. And we like drinking together.) He will often erroneously call me a Democrat (not since 1992, thank you very much!), but even he will admit that a lot of the high-profile Republicans these days are tinfoil hate slobbering at the mouth nutcases. (Hello, Michelle Bachmann!) And if you really press him, he will admit he has no problem with gay marriage or the legalization of drugs. He is right wing totally because of fiscal issues.

I have other friends who are far to the right of me, and some who are even far to the left of me. (My Younger Twin Brother was very involved in the Occupy movement in the Northeast.)

But these days, rather than being right or left, liberal or conservative, I am jaded and cynical. Because I see the elected officials from both parties, from both "sides," being money-hungry corrupt corporate pawns, doing the bidding of their billionaire masters. I call then elected officials because they are clearly no longer representatives, as they do not represent the people they were elected to, well, represent. And it's getting worse, and more blatant. It's as if the elected officials stopped pretending to be representative of the people.

But the one joy I get from watching this utter idiocy is the chaos it's causing. Because it is causing chaos. The elected officials, the representatives of the corporate interests, have gotten so far from each other that they no longer can get anything done. They have gotten themselves so far removed from the will of the people that the people's opinions of them have dropped to an all-time low. And this gives me joy because I know this indicates the beginning of here end of the Empire. It always has. So vote for Bob-R or Willie-D. Elect Mary-D or Susan-R. It doesn't matter. Because at the current rate, all of them will soon be nothing more than footnotes in history, the last elected officials during the end of the Great American Empire.

The Roman Empire is but dust and memories. The British Empire is a pale shadow of its former self. What hubris makes us think we will be any different?

[cindybubbles]

How many of you think that some of our politicians are more like the Mayor of Halloweentown? Like our governments, this poor guy is only an elected official; the real leader is the popular, yet unelected Pumpkin King Jack Skellington.

[MadMike]

I have always made it policy to research the elections instead of voting party line. I think people who blindly vote without researching the current state of whatever the election is over are insane.

Agreed. My son got into sort of an argument with my grandmother awhile back, while we were out to dinner. It was back when Bush II was still president, after he had been re-elected, and I don't remember how his name came up, but my son suddenly wondered aloud why anyone would have voted for him. My son wasn't old enough to really understand these things, so I think he was just echoing what he heard my wife and me say. My grandma responded that she had voted for him. My son asked her why, and her answer was, "Because I'm a registered republican."

To me, that's a stupid reason to vote for someone. If you have researched the issues, weighed all the pros and cons, and decided that he's the better person (or the lesser evil, as it often seems to be these days), then by all means, vote for him. But to blindly vote on someone based upon their political affiliation makes about as much sense as voting for him because you like his shoes.

[protege]

My grandma responded that she had voted for him. My son asked her why, and her answer was, "Because I'm a registered republican."

Reminds me of a similar conversation that I had with my grandmother about Santorum. Dad's parents had always voted Republican. Of course, decades ago, the parties weren't nearly as polarized as they are now. Anyway, Grandma was upset because I said that I felt Santorum was full of crap, and had to go. By this time, some of the things he'd said--and did--really didn't make me think he was the right man for the job. Had he kept his mouth shut, instead of blaming gays for the Catholic church sex scandals in Boston...I might have voted for him. I might have also voted for him, if it hadn't been for the school voucher scandal. (Why was he getting school vouchers in PA...when he lived in VA, and his kids went to school in VA?) Instead, I voted for his opponent.

But, you want to know the icing on the cake? Grandma tends to vote for anyone with an "R"," because she doesn't "want her tax dollars used to give things for free." Things, such as Obamacare. Er, did mention that she gets Medicaid?