Michael Jackson

[Kalli]

my own personal feelings on him....

yes i think he engaged in acts of an "inappropriate nature" with children.
i rather feel that his behavior and the darker side of his personality is downplayed because he had hit songs.

Again I ask; do you actually have a reason for believing this? Could you explain, please?

[PepperElf]

my own personal feelings on him....

yes i think he engaged in acts of an "inappropriate nature" with children.
i rather feel that his behavior and the darker side of his personality is downplayed because he had hit songs.

i don't mourn him
and i wonder if there are some young men who will sleep better at night now

[BroomJockey]

Not everyone found not-guilty is innocent. I stand by my assessment of his guilt. And OJ did it too.

Further thought: You scorn belief in face of lack of or contradictory evidence when it relates to religion, but you're all over believing this.

I guess you CAN believe.

[Kalli]

Not everyone found not-guilty is innocent. I stand by my assessment of his guilt.

And not everyone who is accused is guilty. Do you actually have an "assessment" of his guilt to speak of? If so, I'm interested to hear how you came to that conclusion, because I haven't heard anything more convincing than "everyone says so".

[BroomJockey]

Not everyone found not-guilty is innocent. I stand by my assessment of his guilt. And OJ did it too.

Hmm. Equating MJ to OJ. Pretty sure that's a fallacy of some sort, if you're trying to appear rational.

As for the first bit, no, not everyone. However, in light of a lack of sufficient evidence, a person is to be treated as innocent. Your personal judgement of a person's guilt or innocence carries no weight in society. This is why the mere accusation of this sort ruins lives. People decide to believe it even when it can't be proven. MJ wasn't saved by technicalities or lawyering. There simply wasn't evidence.

[Flyndaran]

Not everyone found not-guilty is innocent. I stand by my assessment of his guilt. And OJ did it too.

[BroomJockey]

I guess if I looked at my own set of judgements, I'd find an example or two of myself doing the same thing.

Most people do. I'm sure I've got a few too. It's like the Wizard's First Rule, and the only solution is constant vigilance and self-assessment.

[Kalli]

Good point, Broom.. I suppose it's just one of those insane human nature things. I guess what gets me is that so many people just cannot fathom someone being that way, like you said, and that they are willing to persecute someone so brutally for their own peace of mind.

I guess if I looked at my own set of judgements, I'd find an example or two of myself doing the same thing.

[BroomJockey]

What do you have to gain by telling those who loved him that we shouldn't?

Easy enough. Validation on a personal level. It's easy for some people to believe the worst about others, because that way, when they slip up, they can say to themselves, "I am only human. I made a mistake, but at least I've never done THAT." The idea that someone might just have been innocent and caring enough to have slept in the same bed with a child not theirs in the same manner a parent or best friend the child's own age could strikes a chord in them that maybe instead of comparing themselves to the worst in humanity and being excused for their failings, they should compare themselves to the best, and strive to be better people. So obviously that means any time someone does something they can't grasp, that means it was done for nasty, evil, dirty reasons.

[Kalli]

Personally, I was horrified by how readily people accepted that Michael Jackson was a pedophile, especially when there is in fact quite a bit of evidence to the contrary (although nobody ever seems to point this out, or point out the countless good deeds he did in his life, because let's face it, good news is boring).

I just couldn't believe how many people of the same species as me were capable of being so cruel and heartless to someone, then point and laugh when that someone becomes strange and withdrawn.

Now, after his death, once again people are demonstrating how horrible people really are capable of treating another human being, even in their death.

Those of you who call Michael Jackson a pedophile or a horrible person of some other distinction, let me just ask you to do one thing quickly. Imagine you are wrong, that MJ never did anything to any children, and that in reality he was very kind and generous and innocent.

Just imagine that for a sec, that someone simply targeted for money. Now, think about the cruel things you and others have said about him, and how much that would hurt. Now multiply that by twenty million or more.

Not only do I completely not understand how anyone (let alone millions of people) could be so heartless, but I ESPECIALLY don't understand what the fuck everybody gets out of it. I mean seriously? What do you have to gain by telling those who loved him that we shouldn't?

[daleduke17]

The funeral is over, media, now shut up and not mention Michael Jackson again.

[Flyndaran]

So if they're related that's fine?

Or if they're poor, that's fine?

Or if they're not a "whacko?" And who gets to define "whacko?"

It seems obvious to me that the parents were hoping something would happen that could turn into money for them.

Not just related, but legitimate custodians may have a reason to share a bed with their small children. Strangers certainly don't.

As to whacko, how obvious should potential injury be to negate the benefit of the doubt given to parents? With the case of MJ, I refuse to believe the we had no idea something bad could happen BS.

[BroomJockey]

Every parent that lets their small child sleep in the same bed as an unrelated whacko rich adult is a pimp

So if they're related that's fine?

Or if they're poor, that's fine?

Or if they're not a "whacko?" And who gets to define "whacko?"

[Flyndaran]

...
So, to put it in more simple terms, no matter what did or did not happen, the parents were either extortionists or pimps.

Every parent that lets their small child sleep in the same bed as an unrelated whacko rich adult is a pimp, whether or not the adult is a rapist.

[hecubus]

Even if he did do something inappropriate, the parents are just as bad for being so naive/downright neglectful. I for one take the serious lack of real evidence and the sensationalism around the whole thing as more important than the comparatively baseless allegations.

In the case that Jackson settled, I really think that the parents came off the worst. They dropped their accusations about Michael when he agreed to pay the how ever many millions of dollars.

Now, if Michael did not do anything inappropriate with the boy, then the parents were basically saying, "Give us money, or we'll tell the world that you're a pedophile." That's blackmail in my book.

If he did do something inappropriate with the boy, the what the parent would essentially be saying, "As long as we get some money, it's okay that you had sex with our son."

So, to put it in more simple terms, no matter what did or did not happen, the parents were either extortionists or pimps.