Rap

[linguist]

And it is. All it is rhyming couplets. I can write rhyming couplets but you don't see me with a record deal. Writing a rhyming couplet and playing an instrument and being able to write songs with it is a huge difference. HUGE. That's all rap is. Just rhyming couplets.

hmmm...where to even begin with this ridiculous statement?

let's just start with your assertion that rap is nothing but rhyming couplets. even if that were the case (which is not, and i'll get to that a bit further on), you say that as if it were a bad thing. some of the earliest "rock stars" of the western world were the anglo-saxon scopen, the bards who were taxed with the job of composing songs and poems for their lords. these songs and poems were...gasp!...rhyming couplets recited to music. and surviving anglo-saxon poetry remains some of the most beautiful and haunting poetry ever composed. so one could look at rap as a continuation of long-standing tradition.

as for your assertion that you could write rhyming couplets yourself, maybe. but could you do so in an intelligent way and put together a compelling story, then deliver said story with passion and conviction? that's why rappers have record deals. their poetry speaks to someone.

about those rhyming couplets, though...i listen to a lot of rap music, because i've kept my mind open enough not to judge based on superficiality, and i've actually bothered seeking out more than what's on the radio. and i have to tell you, very little of it is in rhyming couplets. if there's any rhyme scheme, it's abcb, which is the same rhyme scheme often used by rock, blues, and pop singers.

then you go on to totally discount the talent of producers. producing those music beds that artists rap over takes a lot of talent, far more than many mainstream rock bands banging out three chords on a guitar. which brings me around to my next point: rap groups and instrumentation. i gather from your misguided statement that you're under the bullshit assumption that no rappers play instruments. you should check out the roots. or n.e.r.d. or overlord. boombox. dirty wormz. the beastie boys. hell, rage against the machine is at its heart a rap group, with a guitarist, bassist, and drummer taking on the role of producer and dj. the list goes on.

you're a soccer fan, correct? let me make an analogy. saying rap requires no more talent than it takes to write rhyming couplets is like saying playing soccer requires no more talent than to be able to run up and down a field while kicking a ball. i can do that. could i be a professional soccer player?

an open mind makes the world a much brighter place.

[CancelMyService]

OK, so my post was *slightly* harsher than I intended, but my point still stands. I'd be willing to grant the benefit of the doubt to someone who was against any music that promoted violence against women (hey, Johnny Cash did a song about shooting a woman with his sub-mo-chine) rather than just certain kinds. Don't like songs glorifying crime? Better not be a fan of the song Copperhead Road which is about guys who ran moonshine.

Basically, if you don't like a certain style, just say so. Don't try to degrade it by saying its some lesser or primitive form that just anyone can do.

[ArenaBoy]

h
let's just start with your assertion that rap is nothing but rhyming couplets. even if that were the case (which is not, and i'll get to that a bit further on), you say that as if it were a bad thing.

I didn't say that it was a bad thing. All I said was that rap is nothing more than couplets. Read the post.

some of the earliest "rock stars" of the western world were the anglo-saxon scopen, the bards who were taxed with the job of composing songs and poems for their lords. these songs and poems were...gasp!...rhyming couplets recited to music. and surviving anglo-saxon poetry remains some of the most beautiful and haunting poetry ever composed. so one could look at rap as a continuation of long-standing tradition.

Wow, you have pointed something common to me. Guess what? There was actual music to back up the couplet complete with lutes and guitars. And rap as a long standing tradition? Come on.

as for your assertion that you could write rhyming couplets yourself, maybe. but could you do so in an intelligent way and put together a compelling story, then deliver said story with passion and conviction? that's why rappers have record deals. their poetry speaks to someone.

Oh please
Writing comes to me with ease
As you can see
Poetry has always been easy for me.
I can do this all day
for me this is just simple play.

then you go on to totally discount the talent of producers.

Producers are usually brought in to clean up tracks and give them that polished sound that you usually hear.

producing those music beds that artists rap over takes a lot of talent, far more than many mainstream rock bands banging out three chords on a guitar.

Surrrreee. I did music producing for a while and you want to know what was more frustrating? Recording a band track that had guitars, vocals, bass, and drums. Why you ask? Because someone might screw up a verse on guitar, or the drummer missed a beat, or the singer didn't reach a high enough pitch. All it takes for what you're claiming is talent is finding the right arrangement whereas with say a guitar you're more focused on what's going on around you. When the bass player plays this riff I have to play this riff and etcetera. Then you have fret placement on the guitar to worry about and that one finger on the wrong string can screw up a song. A lot harder than doing what a "producer" does for rap.

which brings me around to my next point: rap groups and instrumentation. i gather from your misguided statement that you're under the bullshit assumption that no rappers play instruments. you should check out the roots. or n.e.r.d. or overlord. boombox. dirty wormz. the beastie boys. hell, rage against the machine is at its heart a rap group, with a guitarist, bassist, and drummer taking on the role of producer and dj. the list goes on.

RATM is more or less metal, Beastie Boys started out as a punk group, Roots takes their origins from jazz mostly, and I haven't listened to the other bands. Nice try though.

you're a soccer fan, correct? let me make an analogy. saying rap requires no more talent than it takes to write rhyming couplets is like saying playing soccer requires no more talent than to be able to run up and down a field while kicking a ball. i can do that. could i be a professional soccer player?

Heard that claim so much that it doesn't even faze me. NEXT!

an open mind makes the world a much brighter place.

Says the guy who thinks producing takes more talent than playing the guitar or any instrument for that matter.

[CancelMyService]

OK, so I guess any music that features rap but proves your opinions of rap wrong is now suddenly not rap.

The Beasties aren't rap? RATM isn't rap? Why pray tell would you come to that conclusion? Because their "couplets" are backed by guitars and drums instead of samples and beats? Hell, most Beasties songs have more production than those rap songs you hate so much.

Your general attitude and dismissiveness seems to suggest that perhaps a nerve was struck. Your view of rap as a simplistic form of music is easily disproven with the most minmal of effort and your unwillingness to accept that does not change anything.



***DISCLAIMER***
In the interest of world peace, I want to make it clear I wasn't calling out anyone in particular in my previous post. I wanted to call attention to the general passive aggressive racial overtones that are very obvious anytime people start blindly bashing rap music or anything that is seen as sterotypically "urban" (ie: "black").

[ArenaBoy]

Your general attitude and dismissiveness seems to suggest that perhaps a nerve was struck.

In case you haven't noticed, my humor is reactionary.

The Beasties aren't rap? RATM isn't rap? Why pray tell would you come to that conclusion? Because their "couplets" are backed by guitars and drums instead of samples and beats?

Pretty much yes.

a type of popular music in which words are recited rapidly and rhythmically over a prerecorded, typically electronic instrumental backing.

Pretty much the standard definition there. Argue it all you want.

Your view of rap as a simplistic form of music is easily disproven with the most minmal of effort and your unwillingness to accept that does not change anything.

BWAHAHA!

I consider music to be storytelling, melody and rhythm. Most rap, keyword here is MOST consists of rhythm and storytelling and there is usually a lack of instruments. And most of it nowadays sounds the same.

I wanted to call attention to the general passive aggressive racial overtones that are very obvious anytime people start blindly bashing rap music or anything that is seen as sterotypically "urban" (ie: "black").

Seriously, was there anything racial said? Was there anything along the lines of saying "This genre sucks because a minority is known for playing this genre"? If you're just trying to make people feel bad by saying that then that's hilariously stupid and pathetic. As far as I know nothing racist was said so far but come on man be serious.

[Boozy]

Anyone who makes a blanket statement that says, "All [anything] sucks, without exception" is going to be proven wrong.

The world is not so black and white.

[protege]

Point out where someone, ANYONE was saying it. Please, point it out.

I'd like to see that too. What *I* said was,
"To me, rap all sounds the same. The same words over and over don't really do it for me. If I wanted my car to "thump" I'd stick a screwdriver into the exhaust." How, exactly, is that racist? Around here, it doesn't matter what color the drivers are--about 99.9999% percent of them have their bass cranked up so much, you can hear them coming for about 52 blocks. *That* is what I was referring to.

[MadMike]

Seriously, was there anything racial said? Was there anything along the lines of saying "This genre sucks because a minority is known for playing this genre"?

Ah yes, I've heard that same argument before. "You don't like rap because you're a racist." I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't care if the person doing it is white, black, or purple with green stripes. It still sucks.

[the_std]

I'm wondering why rap has to be confined to words spoken over a drum/sample beat. Why is it not allowed to have guitars and drums and other musical paraphernalia in it? Why restrict the genre? Saying that rap is all spoken words over a beat is like saying that rock is all electric guitars and screaming. The term "rock" encompasses many, many sub-groupings, as I'm sure you all know. Indy, alt, metal, soft, etcetera. The same goes for rap. It just so happens that "rap" gets branded by the most exposed bits, as has been repeated in this topic many times. 50 Cent and Akon don't have a monopoly over rap these days. That's just all you hear. There is beautiful, melodious, musical rap out there. Tons of it. Just because you don't know about it does not mean it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying you have to go actively searching for the more under-exposed artists who differ from the "bling bling" style. You don't have to listen to it if you don't want to. But there is a wealth of credible, musical, palatable rap out there that is being created these days. Don't dismiss the whole genre as it exists now because of a few people.

[lordlundar]

I don't think I could put any better myself than this.

[Greenday]

Since when has Rage become rap? You gotta be kidding me. Rage is funk or rock, whichever you prefer to call it.

In my opinion, if you can sing, congratulations, give yourself a pat on the back.

If you can sing and play an instrument, you just took took the hardness of singing alone and multiplied it by a hell of a lot.

Despite not liking rap, I'll still call it music, but I still think it's a load of crap.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I don't like rap because...I don't like rap. It's not a style of music that appeals to me.

[linguist]

Since when has Rage become rap? You gotta be kidding me. Rage is funk or rock, whichever you prefer to call it.

zach de la rocha has always identified himself as a rapper, and shortly after the release of their first album tom morello did an interview (can't remember which magazine, but "guitar world" is sticking out for some reason) on the difficulties of playing dj to a rap group using a guitar in place of turntables.

[FashionLad]

It's music. Wow.

I listen to rap, but I also listen to post-punk, rock, metal, garage rock, British Underground... stuff like that. You'll never see me listening to country unless it's Dustin Kensrue.

What's wrong if I want to listen to rap music and I'm white? It's not a matter of race, it's just what I like.

Maybe people living the ghetto life shouldn't listen to Beethoven? Maybe I shouldn't be listening to Led Zepplin because I'm young. Maybe I shouldn't listen to Justin Timberlake because I'm not a 14 year old girl. Anyone can like any sort of music and no one should see a problem with it.

Music is a form of expression and art. Books can be about incest and rape, but those are alright by our culture. It's music. Just music. I have yet to shoot anyone or beat up my girlfriend. Guess what, I'll listen to this music and never once shoot someone or beat up my girlfriend. But, I can listen to the music that says other people do it.

There's a scientific reason why people like the music they do. Certain music actually "tickles" a part of the brain and allows the person to respond favorably to it.

If you don't like a particular style, that's fine. But to call someone out because they're white, affluent and well off because they're listening to rap, that's just plain wrong.

[DarthRetard]

FashionLad, my problem with most mainstream rap--and before you flame me, even I have some sugarhill gang on my ipod--is that it creates a certain image and culture that gets promoted through the airwaves and in anyway necessary. Gang culture, as it's typically called in the media, promotes violence, towards anyone necessary who gets in your grill, promotes wasteful spending of 6000 dollar rims on a 2000 dollar car, promotes violence and abuse towards women, and promotes general, overall ignorance, if you ask me.

I grew up and still live in a predominantly black area. I'm surrounded by gang culture. I'm not spewing something from a news article, I'm talking about what I see. Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. are now symbols because they were killed by gang violence. I've seen local videos promoting gang violence.

These guys aren't listening to Anti-Flag, The Sex Pistols, Rage Against The Machine, anything like that. They're listening to people like 50 Cent who brag about being shot.

And you know who use these people as role models? Young children of any race or creed growing up anywhere, who think that the way to make your way in the world is to gun down those in your way. It's "pimp" to mistreat women, it's "baller" to be wasteful with money, and it's "gangsta" to shoot cops and people who disagree with you.

No, of course there's nothing wrong with it. I wish I could be as ignorant of the obvious effects it's having on my generation.