Sepperating the art from the artist

[Ginger Tea]

The I am so sick of this! thread had this post

One thing was a painting, maybe a foot long, that some relative or other had done; I thought it was cute (and unlike much of the stuff in those boxes, it wasn't water damaged). A cute, fuzzy animal curled up in a melon slice, holding the last bit in its paw about to eat it. It was reasonably well-done, and looked like an illustration out of a children's book. Mom threw it straight in the trash and told me it was racist. Since I'm sometimes slow to pick up on such things, she said what it was in just the right words: "a coon eating watermelon."

I googled coon eating a watermelon and found nothing outside of either a breed of cat called coon or Raccoons themselves, nothing racist outside of the slur associated with the short form of the animals name.
it was suggested that it was perhaps not the art but the artist that was solely to blame, I myself would have a hard time justifying throwing away art just because of what the perhaps dead painter did in his or her life time.

Even though Gary Glitter is not the best person and might have done worse than he was accused of, he did spend some time hiding away in Cambodia where blind eyes were allegedly turned on many a sex tourist.
I would not want his songs to be deleted from stockists and radio air play for glam rock setlists etc, I do find them cheesy and skippable at times, but I wont dislike a song for what the singer or writer had done.

Bryan Ferry once said he liked the German propaganda films of whomever was the main German film maker at the time, not as a Nazi sympathiser but someone who could see the art in the movie, the cinematography the lighting everything but the story in some cases, but even then it can be enjoyed as a story even though it was propaganda and also a war film made by the loosing side, his comment came around the time his signature range at the clothing firm Next was up, but some say it was not due to end for some time but Next went and dropped him as damage control not wanting to be seen as endorsing someone who could be a Nazi sympathiser.
The same year I saw him live for the first and thus far only time as I like his music, OK mostly the best of album "more than this", but I wanted to see him live as part of a bucket list of bands who might not be alive next time I get a chance to see them, although its a slight exaggeration.

I might not have gone to see him if he was prone to Goose Stepping, dressing up as Prince Harry and being a full on He was a good chap that Hitler, but I sure as hell would not throw away my CD's and delete the mp3's I had ripped from said discs, the songs themselves have nothing to do with the man behind the voice.

[Aethian]

I looked up google image and came across a picture if Ranger Rick Raccoon eating watermelon...

[crashhelmet]

It sounds like HYHYBT was describing This Painting

It looks harmless and cute. Yes, it fits a racial stereotype in a very subtle way. Without knowing the intentions of the artist, or even the intentions of the buyer, you can't really come to any conclusion other than your personal opinion of it.

If the artist was a racist, you could make the link to it. However, it would still be just an assumption unless the artist themself came out and declared its meaning.

Separating the art from the artist? I was a huge fan of punk musician Coyote Shivers. That was until I learned more about him.

He was married to former model, and mother to Liv Tyler, Bebe Buell for a few years where he abused her physically and psychologically, using his step daughter as an anchor point to get cast as bit roles in movies like Empire Records and Johnny Mnemonic. When Bebe was finally able to pull away, he married everyone's favorite Goth Forensic Specialist Pauley Perrette and abused her in the same way. After they divorced, he married Brasilian author and media darling Mayra Dias Gomes.

He latches on to rich, famous sugarmommas and then abuses them to keep control over them until they can finally pull away. He's a like a 160 pound tape worm. I like his music, but I can't separate it from him.

[Andara Bledin]

There are an awful lot of artists out there who are just plain ugly people who do great art. I can appreciate the art while still excoriating the actions and beliefs of the artist.

I mean, I still like Metallica's music, even though Ulrich is a spoiled brat from an upper middle class family who never had to go without a day in his life and then goes and whines about how Napster is taking food out of their mouths despite the fact that the song in question hadn't even been released yet so it had to be someone at the label that leaked it in the first place and it was impossible for fans to even buy it. >_<

[Jetfire]

Orson Scott Card and Enders Game (and his other work) would probably fall into this sort of consideration as well. His views on Homosexuality are well known, and are now being used as a reason to boycott the upcoming movie and also cancelled his writing project on a Superman comic book.

For me, I've read a lot of his works and enjoyed them to various degrees. His views on Same-Sex Marriage and other political leanings didn't really reach my attention level until the past year or so. It does paint his works in a different light for me somewhat; but I'm not sure it's enough to make me boycott his works or anything similar to that.

I think in the end, it comes down to a few things. Is the work good enough to stand on its own merits? If so, then let it stand that way. And is the creator's stances just distasteful or are they actually illegal? If they are illegal or punishable, then the creator should be punished regardless of what they have made. If it's distasteful, then it's a personal balancing act everyone who cares for the creation has to balance; does the distastefulness outweigh the work itself?

In Card's case for me, while I completely disagree with his stances, I pity him more than hate him for holding them, in light of the tidal wave of change that is happening in society around him. So overall I don't really have too many qualms buying his work, if it's something I'll enjoy otherwise. (I will probably see Ender's Game in theaters, and may buy the book or two I'm still missing; but most of his other works I haven't cared for one way or another). But that's just me and my views. Others may, and should have their own takes on that and go with what they believe.

[Ginger Tea]

That image, nope I have no idea, not a genuine sausage.

I am not a fan of Chris Brown as a person, but also I don't find the genre of music he works within to my tastes either, so when I say I don't like his music, its not due to the whole beating Rihanna to a pulp aspect*, I just would rather listen to the Wurzels backwards or watch 2 girls 1 cup on a loop whilst strapped to the apparatus used in a clockwork orange, but id say the same for Will I Am and lil Wayne too.

*The amount of BDSM songs she's released since give me the vibe that perhaps something went a bit awry like forgetting a safe word, but instead of saying "Hey I likes it rough" it got turned into man beats woman, but I feel mistaking BDSM for domestic abuse is for another thread.
Edit: and songs are sometimes just stories, just as I don't think Harrison ford is an archaeologist and space pirate, sometimes a song is just a song, but in the light of it, bad form sending out mixed signals there.

[violiav]

I think it also has to do with preconceived views regarding symbolism and stereotypes. For example, watermelon and fried chicken. I truthfully had no idea those had any racial significance till I moved to Texas.

Someone I knew: "Hur, hur, a black person eating watermelon. Hur, hur"
Me: "It's hot out. That's a tasty summer treat. I don't get it."
Them: "Hur, Hur"
Me: "Dude. I too enjoy yummy watermelon during the summer. "

Another dude: "Hur, fried chicken and black people."
Me: "WTF? Doesn't everyone like fried chicken?? I don't get it!"

Yeah, I still don't get it. It's food that almost everyone (barring any health issues) I've known has eaten.

[mikoyan29]

I still enjoy Ted Nugent despite the fact he's gone of the deep end in Right Wing politics. I don't really care what the artists political views are because that's not what i'm listening to the music for. And it's kind of sad about Ted Nugent because he used to be pretty articulate and well spoken....

[Bloodsoul]

This line of thinking springs to my mind now and then whenever Roman Polanksi pops up into the news, although I've never watched any of his films myself (that I know of). Not from choice, it's just never come up; sadly I haven't seen the first Rocky, yet, either.

I might not have gone to see him if he was prone to Goose Stepping, dressing up as Prince Harry and being a full on He was a good chap that Hitler, but I sure as hell would not throw away my CD's and delete the mp3's I had ripped from said discs, the songs themselves have nothing to do with the man behind the voice.

Urge to watch Heil Honey, I'm Home rising; and not to get all Godfrey up in here, but I doubt you'll find many who will unbiasedly separate his art from… well, you know.

[Ginger Tea]

I don't think I've watched a Polanski film either, maybe I have and just didn't notice his name, hell I forgot what he even did, what was it underage sex?
His movies made before no one working cast and crew would have a reason to boycott it, after if it was well known an actor can choose to not work with a director, not wanting to work with some one over political religious or moral beliefs is a valid one, just is not wanting to work with someone who has commited but escaped a crime.

The finished movie should stand apart from him, if any think the movie should not be made because it is him at the helm, well it can and should be bought out from him and then they can find a more palatable director.

Apparently the woman in last tango in Paris later, way later, claimed that the sex scene was in fact a filmed rape, armed with this knowledge would not make me not want to see the movie, but also it is not a selling point for me to finally cross it off my list of movies to watch.

[Gravekeeper]

I don't think the problem is separating the art from the artist so much as the artist separating themselves from the art. Its difficult to do the former if the artist doesn't do the latter.

[AccountingDrone]

Technically yes it is a racist piece [coon = black person, whatever the hell the PC term is now eating watermelon, a very classical racist image] however, back in the day [basically pre WW2] that sort of thing was common, we had Lil Black Sambo [who actually in the story was Hindu] as the advertising image for Sambo's Restaurants. We have Aunt Jemima, the classic black mammy image selling pancake syrups and mixes, we have Uncle Ben, the image of a black manservant serving dinner advertising rice convenience foods... not to mention all the paintings, etchings, carvings, lawn jockeys, penny banks movies...

If you spend your time getting pissed off at images from several generations ago you will have no time for anything else. You have to accept that it was the way people thought back then and get past it. The creators [in general] are all *dead* now.

If it is someone painting "nigger" on your door and burning a cross in your yard, yes you have a right to be pissed off - but the past is never harmful, only educational.

[BlaqueKatt]

I myself would have a hard time justifying throwing away art just because of what the perhaps dead painter did in his or her life time.

Yet even 200 years after his death the Marquis DeSade is still demonized, and his work decried as "filth". Yes it has sexual overtones(one book I had to force myself to finish), but the man was a literary and philosophical genius. Anyone interested in his abilities should pick up the mystified magistrate a volume of comedic works, or Florville and Courval-more(unforeseen) twists than a rubik's cube solution.

[LewisLegion]

The thing with Card is, he uses his money for anti-gay causes. He's on the board (or was) of the National Organization for Marriage, a notorious bigoted anti-gay organization and one of the major players in the fight against marriage equality. It comes down to Chik-Fil-A all over again. The boycott of the movie and Card's works is not just because of his views, but what he's doing with his time and the money he earns from the revenue of those works.

I refuse to put money into the pocket of someone who is going to turn around and use it to hurt or opress me. I also want to send the message to the publishing companies and the movie companies that pick up his works that maybe, picking up his future works will not be as profitable, further preventing more money going into his pocket so he and others like him can hurt me.

His works may be fabulous and full of merit (I was a big fan of his until I found out his views and his activities) but so long as the profits from them go to hurting other people, they cannot be supported.

I will wait to watch the movie when it's free on cable, but I will not give that man or his supporters a dime of my money if I can help it in any way.

[Aethian]

[QUOTE="AccountingDrone;143249"]Uncle Ben, the image of a black manservant serving dinner advertising rice convenience foods... /QUOTE]

I thought he was real...



If things had gone different Adolf Hitler might have been known as a top artist for his generation. I've seen some of his paintings and they are downright good.