Wussification of Female Characters

[Kheldarson]

Clearly you guys know more about Card than I do. I didn't pick up on racism or sexism in the books. I understand he's a homophobe but that's about it.

It's become more apparent as he gets older, which I think is the bigger issue. His early stuff doesn't really have major issues, but his recent stuff...

[Racket_Man]

Clearly you guys know more about Card than I do. I didn't pick up on racism or sexism in the books. I understand he's a homophobe but that's about it.

I really did not pick up on this either when I read Speaker For the Dead about a year ago.

With the different worlds thing you have to remember this: in the Shadow series a LOT of the original colonies had specific majority populations consisting of dominante races, cultures,, religions, etc.

Alai became the head of a Muslim world

Vilormi becomes the head of a mostly Hindu/Indian world

From the 2d to last book in the Shadow series it is hinted that most of Ender's Jesh get their own worlds to govern and it is implied that all their worlds are a bit mono-culture or mono-race.

In Xenocide and Children of the Mind there is a Japanesse planet and a Polyneisn world that have been around since near the beginning ( I do not remember if these were Bugger or non-bugger worlds)


I AM THOUGH waiting for the last book in the Ender/Shadow series tentatively called Shadows Alive that supposedly is going to tie up both story lines. I am making guesses on how that will happen

[Salted Grump]

I heard about that, yeah. The most fucked up part about it is that Other M takes place between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. Meaning she's gone through 3 Metroid Prime games, Metroid, Metroid 2 and Super Metroid by that point.

On the positive side, Nintendo has completely Disowned Other M, and the man responsible for turning Samus into a simpering wuss has been relegated to R&D with next to nobody actually under him on the totem pole.

So, basically, other M is now noncanon, and Samus can go back to being the cool-headed professional asskicker we all knew and love.

[Sarah Valentine]

On the positive side, Nintendo has completely Disowned Other M, and the man responsible for turning Samus into a simpering wuss has been relegated to R&D with next to nobody actually under him on the totem pole.

So, basically, other M is now noncanon, and Samus can go back to being the cool-headed professional asskicker we all knew and love.

Thank god, I was afraid I would end up seeing more of that bullshit in future games.

[Bloodsoul]

Although that reminds me that Nintendo practically did the same thing to Gunpei Yokoi when the Virutal Boy failed (prior to his departure; granted, this is coming off of a memory of reading about it from an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly around the time of his death).

[Talon]

An unpleasant thought occurred to me, regarding the next set of Star Wars movies. Princess Leia will presumably be a wife and mother by then. Please tell me she isn't going to get wussied out... (fingers crossed)

With the different worlds thing you have to remember this: in the Shadow series a LOT of the original colonies had specific majority populations consisting of dominant races, cultures,, religions, etc.

Guessing this was directed to my point regarding the whole state-sanctioned religion on colony worlds, which struck me as dated and archaic.

Regardless of the majority, state-sanctioned religion is a bad idea because in the real world, religions invariably splinter into different denominations. Then you get sectarian strife, where people can get persecuted for being the wrong kind of catholic, or hindu, or muslim, or christian etc. Which faction of religion is the government supposed to endorse?

But the Enderverse is science-fiction. I'm sure Card would love to image a fictional world where sectarian strife doesn't happen, religious interference in government is a positive thing, and children raised in the majority religion would never reject it, and become closet atheists out of fear of ostracism.

[HYHYBT]

Princess Leia will presumably be a wife and mother by then. Please tell me she isn't going to get wussied out... (fingers crossed)

Grandmother, more likely.

[Greenday]

An unpleasant thought occurred to me, regarding the next set of Star Wars movies. Princess Leia will presumably be a wife and mother by then. Please tell me she isn't going to get wussied out... (fingers crossed)

Well, in the books she becomes a badass, but they already announced that they don't plan on following the books.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Honestly, she was already a badass in the original trilogy. She was pragmatic, intelligent, and her aim certainly improved.

She suffered the same thing that Han did. It was Luke's hero's journey and they were the B story to that. It's one of the things that often perplexes me about geek culture when people talk about Han like he was the star of the franchise. No, he was the comic relief / friend you wanted to have played by an infinitely more marketable star.

[s_stabeler]

An unpleasant thought occurred to me, regarding the next set of Star Wars movies. Princess Leia will presumably be a wife and mother by then. Please tell me she isn't going to get wussied out... (fingers crossed)

considering that (IIRC) some version of stormtroopers feature in the new trilogy, then I doubt it is that long after the events of the original trilogy. I don't think you need to worry about Leia being wussified, unless they go with "princess needing to be rescued"

[Hyena Dandy]

Homophobic bigot yes, but I've never got the sense that Card was sexist.

He wrote a female character who is so aggressive no-one believes she's female. Either he's sexist, or he's writing an intentionally extremely sexist society, where someone being aggressive needs to be examined to make sure they're what they say they are.

An unpleasant thought occurred to me, regarding the next set of Star Wars movies. Princess Leia will presumably be a wife and mother by then. Please tell me she isn't going to get wussied out... (fingers crossed)

I get a feeling she might come off as 'wussied out' but on the other hand, she was fairly young in the original thing. As you get older, you get less likely to participate in crazy action sequences unless totally necessary. That's not a trait of a wuss as much as a trait of someone pushing sixty.

Then again, she does seem to think she'll be doing some action scenes, at least.

What bothers me, really, is the way that, in media, female characters tend to be either-or. Either they're masculine, or feminine. Most women I've met have been a bit of both, because, like all people, their are parts of an archetype they fit and that they don't. The tough, action hero lady who never shows any weakness is as boring to me as the submissive, crying weakling.

considering that (IIRC) some version of stormtroopers feature in the new trilogy, then I doubt it is that long after the events of the original trilogy. I don't think you need to worry about Leia being wussified, unless they go with "princess needing to be rescued"

Which never has been before?

To me, a character being captured and needing rescue isn't a weakness, it's a thing that happens. It's how they deal with being captured. In her case, she was defiant, intelligent, and talked back to her captors.

What would bother me about her needing to be rescued again is that they're re-using the plot. :P

[Gravekeeper]

Yeah, Leia's not a damsel in distress. You could gender swap her role and not actually affect the plot of the original movie. She was not captured because she was a pretty young princess. She was captured because she was a senator. Her kidnapping was not based on her gender nor was she just whisked away in the night. Her entire ship was chased down, boarded and captured. Not just her.

Though I'm sure everyone else on board was summarily executed -.-

[s_stabeler]

I should have clarified. I meant unless that decide to turn Leia into a damsel in distress. her being kidnapped again wouldn't nessecarily make for a bad plot- but if she more or less stands around during the rescue, not actively helping...

[lordlundar]

I should have clarified. I meant unless that decide to turn Leia into a damsel in distress. her being kidnapped again wouldn't nessecarily make for a bad plot- but if she more or less stands around during the rescue, not actively helping...

Then that would be a total break of her character. Leia has been captured a few times (once per film in fact) and EVERY time she was at worst waiting for her opportunity to strike.

I doubt this would be the case however. The generic "damsel in distress" is not used in the Star Wars series. I can't think of a single instance where the women in the series of movies were any less capable than the men yet I can think of a number of points where they were the saving grace of the group.

[Jetfire]

On top of that, when you look at the people involved in the new movies, wussifying Leia is even less likely. J J Abrams tends to have strong female characters and Disney's on a strong Princess kick lately, so Leia should be pretty safe in the new films.