question re: discussing religion

[LadyMage]

just say this:

"mom, You are a wonderful member of your church and probably one of the most open people in it, but the truth is that because of who I am they won't except me because they think I will go to hell for who I love outside of my family, and I can not join a church like that after being spoiled in having a truly good christan raise me"

unless she doesn't know you are gay, but you kind of hinted she does so try that

[Flyndaran]

Do you mind if i sig that? Serious.

Go ahead. I hope no one gets the idea that I think religious people are anything just because I dislike religion itself.

[Kalli]

Religion is a genetic mental illness that I hope to one day be evolved out of our genome.

Do you mind if i sig that? Serious.

[Flyndaran]

Once again you're blinded by your hatred of religions (or is it just Christianity?) to see the point of that quote.

It has nothing to do with being "my kind of Christian." It has to do with the hypocrites within the Faith that tell you to do one thing and then do the opposite.

As Smiley pointed out, the Methodist Church is one of the most open and accepting of the Protestant denominations. For someone that is high up within that Church to bash gays is hypocritical and, to tie it directly into the quote, is driving (has driven?) Smiley away from it.

CH

Calling anyone a false believer is wrong. They have just as much right to claim belief in magical books as you. Saying that they fail to live up to what they preach is simply saying that they fail at their version of perfection. Wow, news at 11.
You turn around and claim that to be a Methodist you have to believe in everything that group usually preaches. Wow, again, people can believe things contrary to others in their group, news at 11.

I'm an atheist, and many of us are quite logical and rational. Should I call one a hypocrital false atheist if he believes in leprachauns?

[crashhelmet]

Oh lovely, another of those if they aren't my kind of christian then they aren't "real" christians nonsense.
If someone calls' themself a christian, then they are. You don't get to pick and choose who is a real believer any more than I get to choose some jerk atheists as not "real" atheists because they believe in no gods but they do in the tooth fairy.

Religion is a genetic mental illness that I hope to one day be evolved out of our genome.
Yes, you can be a wonderful good person believing in god like my father was. You can also be a good wonderful person believing in the tooth fairy. That doesn't magically make them true.

Once again you're blinded by your hatred of religions (or is it just Christianity?) to see the point of that quote.

It has nothing to do with being "my kind of Christian." It has to do with the hypocrites within the Faith that tell you to do one thing and then do the opposite.

As Smiley pointed out, the Methodist Church is one of the most open and accepting of the Protestant denominations. For someone that is high up within that Church to bash gays is hypocritical and, to tie it directly into the quote, is driving (has driven?) Smiley away from it.

CH

[Flyndaran]

"The biggest cause of atheism today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips then deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world finds simply unbelievable."

- Brennan Manning
...

CH

Oh lovely, another of those if they aren't my kind of christian then they aren't "real" christians nonsense.
If someone calls' themself a christian, then they are. You don't get to pick and choose who is a real believer any more than I get to choose some jerk atheists as not "real" atheists because they believe in no gods but they do in the tooth fairy.

Religion is a genetic mental illness that I hope to one day be evolved out of our genome.
Yes, you can be a wonderful good person believing in god like my father was. You can also be a good wonderful person believing in the tooth fairy. That doesn't magically make them true.

[crashhelmet]

"The biggest cause of atheism today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips then deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world finds simply unbelievable."

- Brennan Manning

To paraphrase/quote again "Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch."

Don't let this man keep you from fulfilling what you want to do, if it is in fact what you want to do. As others have said, if you want to be involved, then be involved. If it's a matter of being comfortable, then take it slow or even do as your mother suggested and choose a different church.

If it's something that you don't want to do, then you're going to need to sit down and talk with your mother and work that out.

The important thing in all of this is getting what you want out of it. There are those that will try and convince you to become a Christian and there are those that will try and convince you to be an Atheist. Ignore the both of them and follow what you believe. Both can be just as much of an irritating asshole, in my opinion. No one has the right to tell you what you can and cannot believe.

I am a Christian, but regardless if you find solace in praying to God, Big Bird, or nothing at all, you still have my support.

CH

[Kalli]

I truly don't want to offend anyone here, so if the following is out of line, have it deleted or whatever. But since Smiley is asking our opinions...


I could be totally wrong about what will make you happy, but my opinion is: Forget Christianity. Forget God, Church and all of that. Your life will be so much fuller and happier without it, especially if you are only going to follow that path to please somebody else, mother or not. There is no happiness in that life for you, only self-doubt.

I just cannot understand how a parent can put pressure on their child to live the life THEY want them to live like that. It's awful, and it creates a void or a feeling of failure for you, which will never go away even if you DO do what pleases her, because after you start going to church it will be something else, and something else, etc.

Look inside yourself and ask if YOU, not your family or obligations, want to have a relationship with God. If you don't, don't, and never let anybody guilt you into anything ever again. If you do, do it whatever way YOU are comfortable with, whether this involves going to church or not. (but STILL DO NOT LET ANYBODY GUILT YOU INTO ANYTHING EVER AGAIN).

Again, feel free to ignore me if this isn't helpful for you.

[smileyeagle1021]

Tanasi, I know it's not the official policy of the church, and it may or may not be the opinion of the majority of the congregation... but hearing it from someone of such prominense in the local authority structure makes it seem clear that I'm not going to expect a warm and open welcome.
And even if I am just overreacting and letting one person get to me... it still doesn't change the fact that it is the reason I stopped going and won't go back, nor the fact that it would take away from my mother's own experience in the church where she has known nothing but kindness and compassion.

[Tanasi]

Smiley in referring to your OP are you absolutely sure that the gay comment wasn't just that person's opinion and not that particular church's opinion? If it was just the person don't loose your faith in the whole, after all one person doesn't the church make. If that particular church then isn't there another Methodist church you could attend? While I don't know from experience I've hear the Unitarians are all inclusive.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Smiley I'm not trying to convert you here, but if you are looking for a Christian church to attend, have you considered an Episcopal one?

I don't know if they are all as welcoming as mine is, but mine is pretty amazingly welcoming. That is the reason I chose it, because I saw how diverse the congregation was and how everyone was accepted. I'm sure there are others like it out there.

And I think the Lutherans are now also accepting gay clergy, if I'm not mistaken about that.

[Slytovhand]

*nervous laughter* umm... funny you should mention that

Yes... you hinted at that.....

And, I do believe there's a thread regarding hints... hmmmmmm.......


(yes yes, pots and kettles and all that...)

[smileyeagle1021]

Until then, go join a coven! They really will welcome you in! (but after that, you'll just need to put up with petty BS and egos)

*nervous laughter* umm... funny you should mention that

[Slytovhand]

Ah! That explains why the Crit failure thread suddenly popped up again!

Smiley, the problem isn't one of faith in the church vs it's lack.

It's in being naive towards human beings.

'The church' and 'humans who go to church' are 2 completely different entities.

I think you can get away with it by saying that you have actually encountered people who are a part of that group who have specifically expressed ideologies that are actually in opposition to the tenets of the church... and that is why you are hesitant to go back there again. The 'church' and it's members aren't the same thing, thanks mum!

And then point out to her the differences between your situation, and hers.

Of course, it won't change the fact that she'll still want you to go there, but she might at least understand why you're hesitant... and thus, might lay off a bit....

Until then, go join a coven! They really will welcome you in! (but after that, you'll just need to put up with petty BS and egos)

[smileyeagle1021]

My opinion? Crush her. If her faith is God is so weak that it can be damaged by a church comprised of people not being perfect, then it's not a faith worth having.

not her faith in God, that I doubt she will ever lose, but her faith in the church, which has meant so much to her these last couple of years with all the support they provided while she was dealing with my grandma's declining health and death, her own cancer, and a few legal battles. She knows that the church isn't perfect, but I think she needs to, for her own reasons, believe that the church truly does welcome everyone with welcome arms... that what she received truly is open to anyone.