Discovering/Understanding Ardi

[Falconess]

Not sure this belongs under "Religion" but as it could involve some "evolution vs. creationism" arguments, I figured I'd throw it here.

Just finished watching "Discovering Ardi" and am now listening to "Understanding Ardi," while I type this. They've made a very bold statement, and have a weak basis of support. They say that because Ardi's canines were small and blunt, we can no longer claim we shared a common ancestor, with chimps. Nevermind the fact that Ardi also has grasping feet, like chimps, but walked up-right, like Lucy and current Humans.

So, why is it they can make this bold statement? Why couldn't Ardi just be one link closer to that "common ancestor?" Yeah, her teeth were smaller than they should have been. We're not trying to claim Ardipithecus is our common ancestor, they're just another link in the chain, going back. Evolution is just that, evolving, and by Ardi's time, maybe they had already evolved enough to where they didn't need larger canines.

They even state (kind of going against their statement of this disproving we share the ancestor) that there had to be some reason why females were mating with less-agressive males (the smaller canines being an indicator of less-agressive males and females). So, they imply that the canines were, at one point, much longer.

If anything, I would think this discovery would imply that we were closer to finding that common ancestor. Not that this disproves that! She had a smaller brain, like chimps. She had a grasping foot, like chimps. Lived in the trees, like chimps. How the heck is this proof that we didn't evolve from a common ancestor?! So very frustrated.

Even now, as I type this, they're talking about how much the feet resemble modern primates. "Not human, not a primate, but something in between." Yeah, I'm frustrated. I'm gonna end here, before I pop a blood vessel.

[Rapscallion]

"Not human, not a primate, but something in between."

Isn't that the very definition of 'missing link'?

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

The missing link is the species that evolved from primates and evolved into homo sapiens in one direct line. Technically a species could exist that was neither primate nor human but had no link to either of those groups.

For example, Neanderthals are not an ancestor of homo sapiens. They existed separately and simultaneously as early humans, but died out (probably because of competition with humans).

[Dreamstalker]

I read the statement about the smaller canines as being a theory. It can't really be said with any real certainty why smaller canines/alternate mating habits evolved; the only thing we can do is provide a best guess.

I wasn't able to watch the "Understanding" segment (my cable flaked), but I found it fascinating and a lot of what was presented made sense.

[Falconess]

Agreed Dreamstalker, most of it was, in deed fascinating, and it did make sense. It was at the end, that they made this statement, that we can no longer make this claim, that threw me for a loop. Now, in "Understanding" they didn't say it at all. Actually, at one point, the interviewer, was trying to get the men to either say it again, or to say that "Ardi" could be another link to the past. But they never claimed either. So *shrugs* could have just been another case of "whoops, we opened our mouths and made a 'factual' statement without really thinking about it."

[lupo pazzesco]

I was excited when the discovery was made, since this is kind of my field in a roundabouts way. Plus, when Lucy was released from Ethiopa and finally came to the US, (first stop, HMNS, Houston TX!) guess who was there, opening weekend? Yup, that'd be me. Lucy was a landmark find. Australopithecus afarensis, and the surrounding facts she proved were historic. So, when I heard about Ardi, I was excited.

And then letdown with the runaround the scientists kept giving. Especially when the show was hyped as one step closer to understanding our own heritage, and so on. The discovery is still too new, people, why are you bellowing from rooftops that Ardi's kinda sorta could possibly be, maybe the missing link?

Ugh, people.

I didn't even watch the show, since I don't have cable, but read about it the following day. My lab supervisor/professor for bone lab was talking about it. She wants to be able to get her hands on some of the data, because while teeth can tell us a lot, smaller canines may not mean bullpoopie in the larger picture (her words, not mine). It's the sum total of the skeletal data that could paint a more complete picture.