joy, another "christian" hate group

[Hobbs]

Hobbs, can I steal that pic

Sure thing. I'd rather wear the shirt, though

[smileyeagle1021]

Hobbs, can I steal that pic

[Hobbs]

On the other, a lot of straight guys think lesbians are hot.

Before you get hot and bothered, this is a joke.

[smileyeagle1021]

Kabe, I'm not sure how accurate that statistic is about Utah having the highest amount of porn consumption... we have the highest paid porn consumption... that just may mean people everywhere else are better at finding the free stuff and pirated stuff.

[KabeRinnaul]

#3: And this is probably the least, but it is I think an important factor. They think man on man sex is "icky"- icky to the point of making them ill. Being a hetero, I actually think it is kinda icky too, I guess in the same way a gay man thinks sex with a woman to be icky.

I sometimes think this may play a bigger role than it seems at first glance. Yes, part of the reaction is just "guy on guy is gross", but I think another part of the issue actually stems from porn.

Yes, porn.

See, it's an issue of familiarity, among other things. Most of these conservative Christian groups are going to be male-lead and male-dominated (how few preachers or big-name evangelists are women?), and despite their claims of moral purity, a lot of them will be viewers of pornography (doesn't Utah have the one of the highest porn consumption rates in the country?). Now, as heterosexual males, it's not likely much of that will be gay porn.

The train of thought goes... They wouldn't watch it. They think it's gross. You'd have to be sick to watch that. You'd have to be sick to do that. Those people are sick.

That combines with the fact that they never see it, so it remains foreign and hidden. It also leads to an even bigger division between the treatment of gay men and lesbians. On the one hand, they already think gay guys are gross. On the other, a lot of straight guys think lesbians are hot.

...that or it's far too early in the morning and I have no business thinking of such things in this condition.

[smileyeagle1021]

Cassandra, I will have to look into what affirmation is up to now. At least at one point in time they were worse than the Christian hate groups (they weren't about finding churches that accepted them, they were about forcing the churches to accept them).

[Cassandra]

Out of curiosity I got on Google and did a search using the terms christian gay utah and these are the positive links I found:

http://www.affirmation.org/links/

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06a/soulforce.html (this one was mentioned in this post already)

There were only these two in ten pages that were positive and not dating sites.

I can see how this would frustrate me if I were looking for inclusion in a religion in the state I lived in. Most of what came up is as Smiley had said, anti-gay sites and dating sites.

I want to post more of my feelings on this, but right now I'm still trying to put myself in Smiley's shoes and understand the situation better. I might come back later to post more....

[HYHYBT]

They think somehow it is taught and that if you are around gay folks, you could even "catch" it.

The worst form of this, though one you'd think easily disproved, is what I think of as the Vampire Theory of Homosexuality: gays prey on children and adolescents and turn them by molestation.

Never mind that most gay people have never been molested, and most people who have been molested turn out to be straight. Why let mere facts get in the way?

Back to the original topic, that of looking for positive sites for gay Christians, one I don't know how I missed finding until last month is Gay Christian Network. It's primarily a message board. Tastes differ and all that, but I cannot recommend it enough, and would have mentioned it sooner if I'd remembered the existence of this thread.

(and on the off-chance that anyone from here does go over there and cares, my name is different but the avatar is closely and directly related to this one. Or will be if and when they get around to approving it)

And I apologize for this reading like a spam message.

[BigGiant]

I just wonder, with groups like Americans for Truth and that ilk, just what in the hell is it about gay men in particular that seems to scare them so damn much?

I'm not gay, but I have no problems folks that are. I think what scares straight folks so much is that

#1: They don't think you are born gay. They think somehow it is taught and that if you are around gay folks, you could even "catch" it.

#2: Many folks still think that all homosexuals are either going to get aids, or are spreading aids. These are the same folks that (yes, still in this day and age) think that you can contract aids by casual contact.

#3: And this is probably the least, but it is I think an important factor. They think man on man sex is "icky"- icky to the point of making them ill. Being a hetero, I actually think it is kinda icky too, I guess in the same way a gay man thinks sex with a woman to be icky.

Then of course there are what I like to call projectionists. They either are closeted gay men, or have had homosexual tendencies/experiences, and hate themselves for it. So they project that self hatred onto all other folks that resemble that thing that they hate in themselves. I think Fred Phelps falls into this category.

[smileyeagle1021]

Federal Raps.

indeed you are correct, however, there is no federal law regarding discrimination against someone based on sexual orientation.

[Hobbs]

Usually, the 10th Amendment is cited for granting states certain mitigating rights

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Then state law, as I understand it, cannot overrule the anti-discrimination laws. Am I right on this?

Rapscallion

Technically yes. State laws are technically allowed to be more restrictive than federal, not less. But we do have these modern jim crow laws and legalized weed sorta flying in the face of it. So, *shrug*

[Rapscallion]

Then state law, as I understand it, cannot overrule the anti-discrimination laws. Am I right on this?

Rapscallion

[Hobbs]

Federal Raps.

[Rapscallion]

Are employment anti-discrimination laws federal or state?

Rapscallion