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[Andara Bledin]

There are many great things to pretend, but why believe in something just to believe in it?

Why not?

If it does no harm to anyone, including myself, then what does it matter to anyone else?

I believe people are basically decent and will continue to do so despite ample evidence to the contrary. If you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine, and I would appreciate it if you would keep it that way.

^-.-^

[Ghel]

Ipecac and Ghel are in these religion threads to do nothing but troll those of us that believe.

Excuse me? Please cite an example where I have been "trolling" on any thread on this forum. I particularly object to this characterization with this thread because my two posts have been that I like the recent atheist billboards and bus ads and that I don't object to being told "Merry Christmas." How, exactly, is that trolling?

They will demand proof from you but never give their own.

You're shifting the burden of proof again. The person who claims that a thing exists has the burden to demonstrate that it is true. To try to demonstrate that a thing doesn't exist is futile.

[Andara Bledin]

To try to demonstrate that a thing doesn't exist is futile.

This has already been proven to be false, although not entirely relevant to the discussion.

^-.-^

[Ipecac Drano]

Why not?

No, no, no. Don't answer a question with a question.

If it does no harm to anyone, including myself, then what does it matter to anyone else?

Already been covered.

I believe people are basically decent and will continue to do so despite ample evidence to the contrary. If you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine, and I would appreciate it if you would keep it that way.

I like decent people.

This has already been proven to be false, although not entirely relevant to the discussion.

Your denial isn't proof. Plus, since it's about the crux of belief, it is entirely relevant.

[Ghel]

To try to demonstrate that a thing doesn't exist is futile.

This has already been proven to be false, although not entirely relevant to the discussion.

Really? Can you prove that unicorns don't exist? How about leprechauns? The only difference between them and a god is that nobody (as far as I'm aware) believes that unicorns or leprechauns created the universe. They're all three mythical creatures.

Besides, Crashhelmet was the one who brought up the burden of proof. Complain to him if you think it's not relevant to this discussion.

[protege]

I'm sorry; I wasn't aware of that.

It's no problem. The person I knew and loved as my grandmother died about a year ago. She was just a shell until her passing last August

Up until then, she was one of the most religious people I knew. Attended church every Sunday, volunteered on various committees, etc. until it became impossible to do so. Unlike many strict Catholics, she always tolerated my beliefs. She never made me attend service, nor did she pressure me to do so. In fact...she stood up for me when my uncle (her son, a born-again zealot) gave her grief about it. She actually put him in his place-- "Protege works 5 days a week, then comes out here to help me on the weekends. He's tired, and we're not going to wake him."

[Rapscallion]

Andara, give up. Ipecac and Ghel are in these religion threads to do nothing but troll those of us that believe. They will demand proof from you but never give their own. It's best to ignore them as much as possible.

If you think someone's trolling, please use the report button. Accusations of trollery are unpleasant.

Rapscallion

[crashhelmet]

If you think someone's trolling, please use the report button. Accusations of trollery are unpleasant.

Rapscallion

Noted and will be remembered.

[Ipecac Drano]

It's no problem. The person I knew and loved as my grandmother died about a year ago. She was just a shell until her passing last August

Up until then, she was one of the most religious people I knew. Attended church every Sunday, volunteered on various committees, etc. until it became impossible to do so. Unlike many strict Catholics, she always tolerated my beliefs. She never made me attend service, nor did she pressure me to do so. In fact...she stood up for me when my uncle (her son, a born-again zealot) gave her grief about it. She actually put him in his place-- "Protege works 5 days a week, then comes out here to help me on the weekends. He's tired, and we're not going to wake him."

Well, I hope that you and your remaining family all have a great Thanksgiving!

[draco664]

having dinner with Grandma, etc. Sadly, we can no longer have dinner with her

How does Grandma feel about this?

His grandmother passed away somewhat recently.

I'm sorry; I wasn't aware of that.

And here I was thinking that you were indulging the dark side of your sense of humour. I think my inherent cynicism is getting out of control.

Edit: Sorry about your grandmother. Mine passed a few years ago the day after Christmas. She got to see her entire family eight hours before she died. I was rather grateful for that.

[Ipecac Drano]

And here I was thinking that you were indulging the dark side of your sense of humour.

I may have a very dark sense of humor, but I am not a monster.

[Ghel]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the newest atheist billboard this winter. It's been put up by American Atheists in New Jersey. Here's a link to their web page on it.

The billboard depicts the nativity scene in silhouette, with a bright star over the stable and three men on camels heading towards it. The text says "You KNOW it's a Myth. This Season, Celebrate Reason."

The billboard states the atheistic position quite well and succinctly. I support it.

[Ipecac Drano]

[Ghel]

That. is. AWESOME!

Let's play "name the atheists." Let's see, that's Richard Dawkins and PZ Myers on the left, and it looks like James Randi on the far right (not the schmuck with the presents, but the guy with the white beard). I don't recognize the other two, though. Maybe the guy on the right ladder is Sam Harris? Can anybody help me out?

[Ipecac Drano]

Maybe the guy on the right ladder is Sam Harris?

Yep. Wanna guess the lady?