My Problem With Biblical Literalism

[FArchivist]

Are you saying that you don't think your beliefs are true (or that you don't care whether they're true)?

I am saying that it is my opinion that my beliefs are true.

Why would you want to believe something that isn't true?

I wouldn't. Since I am of the opinion that my beliefs are true this does not present a problem to me. If I am ever of the opinion that my belief in God is not true, I will stop believing.

(I think this would be remarkably detrimental to human society, however, as my previous explorations of atheism positing from a non-existence of any deity led to logical conclusions that you would find horrifying.)

I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible. I think that's something that everybody should strive for.

Your opinion on the subject has been noted.

I personally don't give a damn what anyone believes so long as they don't get in my way. You could believe in God, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, nothing, or everything and I just won't give a damn. It's why I married an atheist; it's none of my business what she believes.

[Rapscallion]

How?

Name one manner, other than debating on the Internet, I've wasted any effort at all by believing that God exists?

I'd need your autobiograpghy for that.

Rapscallion

[Hyena Dandy]

or that you don't care whether they're true

Yeah, I don't care whether they're true. Because if they're true, I'm happy, but if they're false, and life doesn't have a grand meaning or anything, I've lived a happier more fulfilling life since I became a Christian than I did before I converted. If life doesn't have a grand meaning, then its up to us to make it. And I have made my meaning.

Fact it, I do care if your beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny. From my perspective it's a waste of the effort you could have put into bettering humanity.

In order to determine how to react to that sentence, I'd need to know whether you were saying "Fact is," or "Face it."

I'm not making fun of your typo, I just need to understand the tone of the post.

I'd need your autobiograpghy for that.

Then what makes you think she (or I) have wasted any effort.

[Rapscallion]

Oops - was 'fact is'.

As to the assumption, it's a good general rule of thumb that someone identifying as christian is going to spend time in a religious institution once a week - usually a church.

Rapscallion

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Fact it, I do care if your beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny. From my perspective it's a waste of the effort you could have put into bettering humanity. It also worries me about the next generation - younger people are far more likely to militant than other age groups, wanting to be holier than the generations that came before. I have no doubt that your motives are good, but there are always going to be those who take it too far.

Rapscallion

Okay, Raps, I got to take exception to this. First of all, playing World of Warcraft is a waste of effort people could be instead into bettering humanity. So's hanging out here. So is drinking, buying shoes, screwing, and filling in Thundercats coloring books. Saying I shouldn't "believe" a certain way because I could be otherwise be out there curing cancer and saving orphans from burning buildings is, at best, grasping at farts.

Second, yes. Young people do that. Then they grow up. I have a really vivid memory of what being a kid was like. That's why young people call old people "sell outs", and "the man" and other epithets that describe what they swear they will never become and yet always do.

And three: Good intentioned people need to knock it off because there is always some other person who does not know where to draw the line. Really.

Dude.

[Andara Bledin]

As to the assumption, it's a good general rule of thumb that someone identifying as christian is going to spend time in a religious institution once a week - usually a church.

Not that I've experienced. I haven't been inside a church that wasn't part of a tour since I was 6 or so.

Okay, Raps, I got to take exception to this. First of all, playing World of Warcraft is a waste of effort people could be instead into bettering humanity. So's hanging out here. So is drinking, buying shoes, screwing, and filling in Thundercats coloring books. Saying I shouldn't "believe" a certain way because I could be otherwise be out there curing cancer and saving orphans from burning buildings is, at best, grasping at farts.

Thanks. I was having trouble figuring out how to say just this.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

As to the assumption, it's a good general rule of thumb that someone identifying as christian is going to spend time in a religious institution once a week - usually a church.

So, what do you expect me to be doing in that time that would benefit humanity?

I do like to think, in some small way, I benefit humanity. I do that by writing. And the strength I have to write, whether its a poem or porn, comes from the self-confidence I get from my faith.




Also, "Some people will take it too far" can be applied to anything.

Some people take anything too far. "Religion is a corrupting force on the world" can be taken too far just as easily as "There is only one true faith."

[Gravekeeper]

1) GK, I wasn't trying to accuse Raps of censorship. I was saying what you let us believe referring to him saying he wanted to get rid of religion. Not saying he was actually actively doing it. I apologize.

Ahhh, okay then.

Though it seems I again have to point to What Raps Said(tm). But hey, easier then having to type it out myself. >.>

[Hyena Dandy]

Point to what he said about what?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

So, what do you expect me to be doing in that time that would benefit humanity?

I'm guessing we probably need to stop with the weekly food bank drives, the hosting AA, the ongoing project to turn our unused back building into a community center, the various support we give to members who fall ill or onto hard times, the "adopt a family" things and whatnot? I concede it ain't much, but it's something, at least. I'm not trying to make us look like some great benefactor by any means, but I am trying to make a point. These are things we do to help our fellow man. They are things my church does.

I'm confused as you are, HD. Trying to make an easier way for those we share this life with only counts if one is not affiliated with a philosophy of any sort? What am I missing?

[Gravekeeper]

Point to what he said about what?

Not the time waste thing, the other thing about the debating and the non-contempt. Heh ;p

[Hyena Dandy]

Not the time waste thing, the other thing about the debating and the non-contempt. Heh ;p

Can you repost it? I'm afraid I'm lost.

[Gravekeeper]

Can you repost it? I'm afraid I'm lost.

Nrrr, making me type it. Was just trying to say that if you walk into the debate, don't be surprised if your position gets addressed. But I don't have any ill will behind it, I, like Raps, merely find it engaging. Even if I tend to get thrown into the theist or atheist camp by one side or the other depending on the thread. >.>

[Ghel]

I wouldn't mind religion being relegated to the status of a hobby or pastime. But for most people, their religion colors their entire worldview. Beliefs can, and frequently do, have a negative effect on people's lives. Like the belief that prayer can heal, particularly when prayer is used as a substitute for medical attention. Like the belief that immunizations cause autism, leading to children dying from diseases that could have been prevented if they had been immunized.

If religion is merely a pastime, then arguing about it is like arguing about which is better - Star Trek or Star Wars. No matter how good your argument is, you're still arguing about fiction. The views of a religious fanatic should have no more bearing on education or politics than the views of a scifi fanboy.

Now, I have no problem with discussing the merits of a fictional universe, as long as we agree that the framework of the discussion is fiction. But as soon as you tell me that Tatooine really exists, I have no choice but to consider you delusional.

I am saying that it is my opinion that my beliefs are true.

It doesn't work that way. A thing is true or false independent of whether one believes in it. You can believe that a god exists, but your belief doesn't make it true. You can have an opinion about that god's nature, but that opinion is moot if the god in question doesn't exist.

I'm guessing we probably need to stop with the weekly food bank drives, the hosting AA, the ongoing project to turn our unused back building into a community center, the various support we give to members who fall ill or onto hard times, the "adopt a family" things and whatnot? I concede it ain't much, but it's something, at least. I'm not trying to make us look like some great benefactor by any means, but I am trying to make a point. These are things we do to help our fellow man. They are things my church does.

Are you saying that you wouldn't do any of these things if they weren't affiliated with your church?

[Hyena Dandy]

Nrrr, making me type it. Was just trying to say that if you walk into the debate, don't be surprised if your position gets addressed. But I don't have any ill will behind it, I, like Raps, merely find it engaging. Even if I tend to get thrown into the theist or atheist camp by one side or the other depending on the thread. >.>

Ah, that's it!

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to give the impression I felt my position was unassailable, or too holy or something.

I should restate, then.

I appreciate debate too, otherwise I wouldn't be here.

To debate, I must explain my position, and my position is that whether or not God ACTUALLY exists is entirely irrelevant to my BELIEF that God exists. I acknowledge my position isn't rational, and I am at peace with that.


Edit: Ghel, you confuse me, but I hope you can explain your position.

Why do you accept at face value all the BAD things that are done in the name of religion as being religion's fault, but then claim that the good would happen anyway?

Also: She would probably not turn her church's unused back building into a community center if she didn't have a church.