The old evolution debate

[Sleepwalker]

our particular branch wasn't as advanced

'Advanced' implies a goal. It implies direction and progress. A species can be more numerous than another, it can reproduce more successfully than another, it can even, veering into dangerous territory here, be more 'fit' than another, as long as you make sure to describe what that 'fitness' entails(generally reproductive success).

It cannot be more advanced than another, unless you're going to posit an example of an ending species for it to advance towards.

[Ghel]

It sounds more like he is separating human the species and Man the culture.

Until a certain point we were simply another "dumb" animal living in nature then something happened and we put a piece of sharpened flint on a stick, lit a fire and started in small ways controlling more of nature than our cousins could.

I think that is about right.

Ok. I can agree with that. Humans are still animals; we're just animals who use tools really well and have languages that are more sophisticated than most other animals.

[mikoyan29]

It sounds more like he is separating human the species and Man the culture.

Until a certain point we were simply another "dumb" animal living in nature then something happened and we put a piece of sharpened flint on a stick, lit a fire and started in small ways controlling more of nature than our cousins could.

I think that is about right.

[Andara Bledin]

And then humped them into genetic submission~

Pretty much this. Popular theory right now is that our particular branch wasn't as advanced; we merely reproduced faster and took out the competition by sheer weight of numbers.

And quantity over quality has ruled us since.

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

When I said cousins I didn't mean other humans I meant other animals. Based on Evolution we all came from the same soup so all living things are our cousins.

And then humped them into genetic submission~

[jackfaire]

Nothing happened save evolution.

Which is exactly what I said. Unless you want to call us deciding one day to start using tools in a different way than other species something different.

I never said there was some magic moment but like anything we have done as a species there was a first time someone did it. There was a first time someone used something in a way that another species didn't think to do and that started to set us apart as we then did more of that.

Like the first time someone twigs a new slang word and soon lots of people are saying it until you get whole groups of people saying, "Man that was sick" and others going, "Uhm so it made you vomit?"

When I said cousins I didn't mean other humans I meant other animals. Based on Evolution we all came from the same soup so all living things are our cousins.

[Gravekeeper]

Until a certain point we were simply another "dumb" animal living in nature then something happened and we put a piece of sharpened flint on a stick, lit a fire and started in small ways controlling more of nature than our cousins could.

Nothing happened save evolution. Which likely took thousands of years to get to that flint on a stick point. Two things we know made as smarter are socialization and sensory multitasking. Much of the evolution of our brains is tied directly to our emerging social behaviour. While we've recently proven ( by doing weird things to fish ) that sensory multitasking results in evolution and a divergence of species as well.

Also we farked everything and basically assimilated the other two competing humanoid species around at the time through hot, hot interspecies love. We weren't in any way special or chosen, we humped opposing species into genetic submission.

[jackfaire]

God stepped in and magicked self-awareness into two of the proto-humans and named them Adam and Eve?

It sounds more like he is separating human the species and Man the culture.

Until a certain point we were simply another "dumb" animal living in nature then something happened and we put a piece of sharpened flint on a stick, lit a fire and started in small ways controlling more of nature than our cousins could.

[Ghel]

Are you saying that you believe that evolution proceded on its course without divine intervention until, at some point, God stepped in and magicked self-awareness into two of the proto-humans and named them Adam and Eve?

[mikoyan29]

Does this NPR article describe the discussion you heard? It sounds the same.

The Christian belief that Jesus' sacrifice absolved humanity of Original Sin only makes sense if there was a literal Adam and Eve and that they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If the Genesis account is allegory or myth, then Jesus' death was meaningless. That's why evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christians are so opposed to evolution - it takes away the basis for their religion.

That would be the one. For me, I'm more in line with the current Catholic view of things. We can not deny the existence of evolution but we can say that man didn't become man until he basically became self aware.

[Ghel]

Does this NPR article describe the discussion you heard? It sounds the same.

The Christian belief that Jesus' sacrifice absolved humanity of Original Sin only makes sense if there was a literal Adam and Eve and that they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If the Genesis account is allegory or myth, then Jesus' death was meaningless. That's why evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christians are so opposed to evolution - it takes away the basis for their religion.

[mikoyan29]

Interesting. Which evangelicals and what were they saying?

ONe of them was a geneticist and he said that the initial pool of "humans" was about 10,000. In order for us to have mutated in the time that is claimed by many evangelicals, we would already be mutating again. And of course, some of these guys are getting pretty poor treatment from the groups (kind of like Galileo).

[Ghel]

Interesting. Which evangelicals and what were they saying?

[mikoyan29]

This morning on NPR, they were talking about a few evangelicals that were re-examining their views vis a vis Adam and Eve.

[Ipecac Drano]