religion should not be used in war

[suchislife]

ok.....countries are constantly battling each other and using their religion as the reason. Many wars have been ignited using the bible or the Koran. Catholics and Baptists fight each other to try and prove their beliefs are truer than the other.

As far as I'm concerned religions teach you ethics and morels. They teach you ways to better yourself, give you something to hold onto in times of hardship among other things. Weather you be Buddhist or scientologist the same basic principles apply to both religions as far as the "right way" to behave goes, love, respect, compassion... it just confuses me that people use it to insight so much evil and hate, when it's meant to be doing the opposite...

[protege]

Keep in mind that those fools are *not* True ______ (insert religion here), but instead trying to use that to justify their actions. They take religion and twist its beliefs to suit their own agenda.

With that said, religion has been the cause of many wars--the Crusades, for example, and much of the current crap in the Middle East. Forgive me for sounding like an asshole, but I still don't know why a few passages out of a book can make people go bananas.

[AFPheonix]

Because to a lot of people, the entire book is pretty much a blueprint on how to live your life correctly, so that you can get to the "right" place when you die.

As to the original question, people use religion in war because unscrupulous people know that religion is a powerful force in a lot of people's lives, and thus, if they can use religion to sway them to do their bidding, they have a lot of power.
The religion is secondary, thirst for power has and always will corrupt the religious who seek it. This is why I hate to see the rush in our country for leaders to try and one-up their rivals in their religiosity. It harms the government, and it harms the church.

[rahmota]

One of the biggest problems I've seen with religion is that each religion claims to be the one true way and path and close personal friend of jesus, allah or whomever. and that if you do not follow that religion then you are a lesser person and the enemy. One of the reasons that religion has been the second biggest cause of conflict throughout the history of humanity ever since its invention.

yes I said invention. In my POV and opinion and forgive me if you take offense at this as I am not meanign it to. But humanity invented the gods and not the otherway around. Folks a long time ago didnt see the world the sme way as we do now thanks to science. Lightning was a blast quite litterally from the heavens. A person dies from a heart attack they must have offended the gods. A supernatural reason was developed for anything that could not be explained at the time. So since there was supernatral reasons for bad thigns maybe if thy prayed or sacrificed sheep hey could get the gods happy and on their side.

Out of that environment religion developed. this tribe or that tribe claimed they knew the gods and could please and placate them so that the gods would smile upon them. And if the gods smiled upon them then good things would happen to them. Including being able to remove those heathens who would not submit to heir obviously superior understanding and relationhip with the gods. And so then their gods told them to wipe out their enemies. Just one more excuse or reason to go to war against thier fellows.

Relgion causes more conflict than it solves. Always has and always will. e it on the grand scale of nations or on the scale of individual human interactions.In my personal opinion until humanity finally outgrows the need for the security blanket of religion we will never really become and advanced race.

Again i dont mean to offend anyone who is religious. I walked away from that over 10 years ago and do not regret it for the reason I have. I am still a good person who believes in doing more helpful, beneficial to all and peaceful thigns than harmful, hurtful,nasty things.

[protege]

Well said. Thousands of years ago, many things were going on...things that could not be explained to early humans. The technology that we take for granted, simply didn't exist. To them, "someone" had to be causing the rain, sun, wind, etc. rather than it simply being a force of nature. In short, they assigned human characteristics to whatever was going on. At the time, it seemed like a good idea...

Anyway, religion gets used to justify things...simply because some of its various followers are mindless sheep who cannot think for themselves. (Notice how I said *some* there.) These sheep are easy to control and manipulate...simply because they'll follow without question. This is *exactly* how Hitler and his ilk were able to gain and hold onto their power.

As an aside for that, many people were willing to follow the Nazi beliefs, until they started getting their asses handed to them towards the end of WWII. There weren't any anti-Nazi demonstrations...simply because the SS would have killed them, but I have a feeling that they *seriously* started questioning their beliefs...

I too walked away from religion years ago. Having a priest, as well as several nuns tell you that "you'll never amount to anything" will do that. Religion may work for them, but not for me. Nearly 20 years later, I think I've made the right choice.

[rahmota]

I'll agree that some people are mindless followers who just go with the flow of what seems the best or the most comfortable and compatible with what they are used to either from cultural or parental influences.

But what scares me are the true believers. The ones who truely, deeply and with every core of their being that their *ism is the only one true one and that all others deserve to die. I think the operative from Serenity summed that outlook up best when he said he was going to make a perfect world but there would be no room in it for him. Those kinds of folks will not accept or listen to reason, reality or anything but their chosen *ism.

In between are the people who feel that for the most part their chosen *ism is a good idea and one they wish to follow even if it isnt perfect. They may not agree with another's *ism but they are not going to go out of their way to destroy it or them.

Unfortunately those three choices are just the end points of the spectrum of belief. With people ranging somewhere between the three. Sometimes the same person over the course of their life will rise and fall along that spectrum, or otherwise have certain points that are on one level and others at another level. And you can include aethism in that definition of *isms as the lack of belief is still a belief. Even if you refuse to choose you have made a choice as the song goes.

[Jadedcarguy]

Two books I recommend on this subject, both by Sam Harris.

The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason and Letter to a Christian Nation. Both well written and both bring up some points that I never had pondered before.

[Slytovhand]

My turn on a popular thought pattern of mine...(ie - religion... I'm going to try and get to Bath Spa University to do my Masters in Contemporary Religions and Spiritualities )

I believe (hahaha) that for the OP, those who choose willingly to go and kill in the name of <insert> even though their specific faith says it's a bad thing, don't really believe. Or somehow have convinced themselves that they're allowed to get away with it, because they're using <insert>'s name for the 'glory'. Which to me, is a pretty insane thought pattern (literally!)

I have heard that the justification used by Muslim's when they kill infidels is that unless they are a follower of Islam, then the 'person' isn't considered human - so they can joyously kill those 'animals'. Of course - someone feel free to correct me on this....


I am a believer (as I've mentioned in other places). I have a bit of an issue with 'religion', similar to those that have been mentioned here. But... just because we do have technology doesn't mean that there aren't other...'forces' existant in the universe as well. Worthy of 'worship'?? That's always debatable to me. Even if I meet a god who created me... so????

Some of those *isms are good for people... religion - like pretty much all things - has it's place. It just needs to learn to keep it there . Personally - religion is a part of psychology - belief is about your interactions with the universe. What about the old idea of jumping off a cliff to show faith???


oh - and back to the OP - humans will find a way to justify anything... they are very egocentric animals!

(btw - as for the Hitler bit... historically.... Germany was in a bad depression after it was millions in debt after the reparations following WWI. It had lost land, and no longer had sea access. Basically - it sucked to be there. Especially with your neighbours doing fairly well... So - Hitler got things moving by propagating massive capital works spending, he flouted the (now hated) Europeans by rebuilding a military force - which of course always helps during a depression - and decided to get back the land that was traditionally theirs (the Rhineland)... and a bit... It wasn't until after he was well in control that the issue of religion came to bear - and even then, in the early stages, it wasn't the actual religion per se that mattered, but that Jewish people held (horded) a lot of financial wealth, and they wanted it back! (for a long time, Jews weren't allowed to own property, so learned to create wealth through financing...). Again - feel free to give me a more accurate history lesson


Slyt - again... ad nauseum...<sigh>

[BlaqueKatt]

As far as I'm concerned religions teach you ethics and morels.

no they don't they teach obediance-don't do this or suffer punishiment-morals/ethics come from realizing your actions harm others, not out of concern for your own well being-hence the reason some religions encourage war. "Punish the unbeleiver"

Weather you be Buddhist or scientologist the same basic principles apply to both religions

Buddhism is NOT a religion-to quote Richard Dawkins(the God Delusion) "Buddhism/Confusiousism are not to be treated as a religion at all but an ethical system or philosophy of life" -you don't "worship Buddha" he was a man, that understood we are all connected to everything, there is no "creator god"(the universe and all in just exist) no "prayer"(you take action yourself)-medation is done to gain insight into the lives we lead here and now, as there is no "afterlife". And one of the most well known quotes of Buddha is "Do not believe anything no matter who said it, even if I said it, that does not agree with your personal experiance in life or your own common sense."

The Buddha was very clear that nothing he said was to be taken as doctrine(relegion MUST HAVE DOCTORINES). You can believe in something or not believe it as your own particular reasoning and life experience dictates, but always be ready to abandon it in the face of a superior argument.(religion WIL NOT DO THIS-it goes against "faith)


Sorry this is just a major pet peeve of mine-being an Atheist and a Buddhist, and constantly being told by people that don't understand that I can't be both.

[ElMarko]

Keep in mind that those fools are *not* True ______ (insert religion here), but instead trying to use that to justify their actions. They take religion and twist its beliefs to suit their own agenda.

This is politically correct wishful thinking. The Koran has dozens of passages that tell you to kill unbelievers. The bible tells Xians and Jews to kill kids that talk back to their parents. It says that incest and genocide are OK for certain people to commit and all kinds of horrific shit. Karma is just the oriental version of original sin.

Faith is the problem. It's just another word for obstinance, If people would look at the world around them instead of living by the ramblings of people for whom the screw was cutting edge technology, there would be a lot less psycho violence in the world.

[protege]

This is politically correct wishful thinking. The Koran has dozens of passages that tell you to kill unbelievers. The bible tells Xians and Jews to kill kids that talk back to their parents. It says that incest and genocide are OK for certain people to commit and all kinds of horrific shit.

Of course most of the people who *do* those sort of things just concentrate on certain passages. They seem to skip over the parts about tolerance

While we're at it, how do we know that those passages weren't added later when the Koran and Bible were translated into other languages? It would have been very easy for a scribe to slip their own hatreds in there! We all know that the King James Version has been used for centuries by various groups to justify their actions--everything from lynchings to outright genocide.

[Gabrielle Proctor]

Two books I recommend on this subject, both by Sam Harris.

The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason and Letter to a Christian Nation. Both well written and both bring up some points that I never had pondered before.

Also, look into reading "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. It's an autobiography, but it really helps you understand that fanatical bit of the muslim community.