guilty until proven innocent

[muses_nightmare]

I've noticed lately, in BC anyway, a strong tendency of people to assume the police are at fault before any evidence is reviewed. I can barely watch the news anymore because I always end up frustrated. The media keeps bringing up things that have nothing to do with the actual situation.

For example, recently the police shot a man who was advancing on an officer with an extented exacto knife. This person was asked to drop the weapon, which is exactly what it was being used as, and he did not comply. Not knowing exactly how the man was acting aside from brandishing a knife, I'd say that the police action was correct. Now I understand that the family is rightfully upset, but bringing up that the knife was used for crafts or art doesn't change how he was using it at the time.

Also the fact that he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and was stopped as a suspect in a car break in doesn't matter. What matters are his actions when stopped by the police.

I'm just sick and tired of people jumping to conclusions about the police before they hear the entire story. I do understand that there is corruption, that people do abuse power, especially when given weapons. But I also understand that these people have the right to not be abused simply for doing their job, and it is a difficult job.

There are so many anti-police people out there, namely those people who want to drink and drive, do drugs and other sorts of illegal activities without being punished for it.

I for one supported the police who responded to the YVR incident (the one where the polish immigrant was tasered). Now if it is proven that they were in the wrong, I'll support the court's decision in that as well. What bothers me most about that incident is that there are so many other people who are culpable for this, who could have helped the situation before it escalated. And they are not being crucified by the media and public as much as the officers that responded are.

It's frustrating, being one of the few pro-police people I know.

[lordlundar]

I know the feeling. In my town there's a lawyer who proclaims himself a "champion for the public". The only cases he gets involved in is lawsuits against police officers, regardless of the events surrounding the case and every time he opens his mouth in public, it's to spew bile on the entire police force. This guy could have his life saved by an officer only to turn around and sue him for something stupid.

Sadly, the media perpetuates this. One of the city papers during the Oilers Cup run a few years back was covering the events on Whyte ave. Their journalists apparently missed the mass fights and fires being started along the entire length but a photographer just happened to get 14 pictures of an officer using a head stun on someone who was not complying with police, which was a total of a second and a half. (for the record, the paper also chose not to talk to the police nor put up the press release until a few months later) Guess the results of that little incident.

[crazylegs]

There are news papers world wide that 'specialise' in spreading negative connotations about the police, yet hardly ever print good stories about them, this pro police website shows that quite nicely.

[Talon]

Welcome to the debacle that is the modern "news" organization.

They only care about ratings, which translates to money. That means they'll milk a perceived controversy for all the sensationalist headlines possible. Or worse, they'll manufacture a controversy.

[Stormraven]

Some days I get to feeling that anyone in a position of Governmental authority should be treated that way. I.E., in any situation where a government authority is being accused of violating the trust of his position, he should be viewed as guilty unless he can prove he's innocent.

There are, of course, innumerable issues with that, which is why I only get that feeling some days.

[Shangri-laschild]

I agree that it does suck. And there are two sides to it. One side is ignorance. I work with police, so I know that they are trained that if someone comes at you with a weapon, you don't let them get near you. You have a gun for a reason and you do what you have to to keep yourself safe. In fact, some of our officers went to a training where they roleplayed that kind of situation. Someone who is threatening (whether by words or weapon) is coming at you, what do you do. What you said the officer did is exactly what they are trained to do. And there's no shooting to disable or wound, which also seems to be a misconseption too.

The other side of it is that there are bad cops out there. Sometimes individual people who have a distrust for police have a reason. It sucks that there are police out there like that, but there are. Not as much as the media makes it sound like, but more than there should be. Just something to keep in mind as far as individuals who have bad opinions about them.

Some days I get to feeling that anyone in a position of Governmental authority should be treated that way. I.E., in any situation where a government authority is being accused of violating the trust of his position, he should be viewed as guilty unless he can prove he's innocent.

There are, of course, innumerable issues with that, which is why I only get that feeling some days.

Even if that is true, which I don't really agree with, it should be treated that way by the person's supervisors, not the media who only seem to ever look at it from that direction for the most part.

[Gerrinson]

I've dealt with some good cops and I've dealt with some really crappy cops.

Generally speaking, however, if someone with a weapon is coming towards you and refuses to relenquish the weapon then you need to do what is necessary to protect yourself. It doesn't matter if you're a cop, a civvy, or military. Self defense first.

Anyone who wants to second guess after the fact should be given the offer to be put in the same position. See how they react to it. Jackasses.

[Flyndaran]

A big problem with this attitude is that there are still corrupt/incompetent departments. The oregon portland police have committed so many forms of legal murder that they have lost any benefit of the doubt any innocent cops may have fought to earn.
My father died in the line of duty as a police officer, so I refuse to give incompetent cops a free pass.
I don't trust a stranger cop from some place other than portland any more than any other stranger. To do otherwise is naive.

[crazylegs]

Welcome to the debacle that is the modern "news" organization.

They only care about ratings, which translates to money. That means they'll milk a perceived controversy for all the sensationalist headlines possible. Or worse, they'll manufacture a controversy.

Example in point.

It was discovered that UK police cars were reaching the limit of what they could safely carry, this is due to the extra electronic kit/lights/sirens/radios + other kit (cones, road signs, crowbar, enforcer, stinger, first aid kit etc etc etc) plus officers.

It was orginally reported as a safety issue.

Some media outlets ran it as Policemen too fat for patrol cars causing them to be over the legal weight limit. I did start a thread here about it somewhere but I'm far too lazy to find it right now!

[Boozy]

I understand that a lot of the criticism that police departments receive is unwarranted. The media and the public can be rapid about this kind of thing.

It would be nice if the only criticism of the police we heard was well-researched and based in fact. It would also be nice if every single police officer was honest.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. So the police will police the public and the public will police the police. Sometimes the pendulum swings too far in one direction, but on the whole things tend to get worked out.

[Sylvia727]

I don't trust a stranger cop from some place other than portland any more than any other stranger. To do otherwise is naive.

I don't trust cops from anywhere, and I mistrust a strange cop much, much more than I would a strange civilian. I've posted on here before about how the cops have screwed me and screwed my friends and family. A system that lets in even one bad cop will let in another, and I have no way of knowing which one that is. A dishonest and in some cases outright malicious person with authority over me will abuse that power given the opportunity. So I don't give any cops any opportunities. I smile and nod hello and don't say a word to them. Generally, I think the system works. But particularly, I fell through the cracks once and I don't intend to do so again.

[muses_nightmare]

Honestly, I totally understand if someone has a valid reason for mistrusting law enforcement. I really only have problems when things are assumed about them, as I would with any citizen (though I am guilty of assuming things, as are most people). I realize they are in a position of power, but they are human, and they do deserve to be treated as such until they do something that makes them undeserving of respect.

The people I have a problem with are those that hate the police with no valid reason. Those people that will cry "brutality" when they are the ones who have brought the treatment they are getting on themselves. When the case is that the police were not using excessive force, or anything of the sort. People that lie to make the police look bad.

Case in point, there was a man who came forward claiming that an officer had deleted video evidence of the shooting I mentioned in my original post off of his cell phone. He also claimed to have seen the police fire 5 or more rounds. Further evidence taken from other videos of the event shows that 1) the man is not seen on them and 2) there was 1 shot fired. I for one called BS as soon as I saw him on TV, I don't know what it was about him, but there was somethign there that made me not trust him.

This isn't to say that police don't lie and try to cover things up, it happens, I'm sure a lot more than any of us would like to admit.

[Jester]

There are, in my opinion, more good cops than bad cops. However, there is no question that there are bad cops, too. Cops that are corrupt, take bribes, perform criminal acts, and/or abuse their authority. There are also bad police departments that may have some good cops on them. Key West is a good example. Most of the cops I know are pretty good guys, but the brass down here is a joke, and has been for years. Last I heard, there were TWO former police officers suing the KWPD and/or the City for various reasons, but in both cases it goes back to corrupt and/or incompetent and/or wrong practices by senior officers and/or the former chief. Although, to his credit, the new police chief does appear to be making changes for the better.

But anyone who is familiar with the Miami or Los Angeles police departments knows that, as an organization as a whole, these two each stink, and are rife with all kinds of problems.

This is not an opinion I've formed merely from personal experience, mind you. Hell, most of the cops I've dealt with have been pretty damn cool, with only two that stand out in my mind as bad, one as an incompetent idiot, and the other as an authority abusing jackass. I'll freely admit that any time I got arrested was due to my own actions, too. But both Miami and L.A. PD's (among others) have both been so thoroughly documented for their failings that to say they are just misunderstood or given bad press is just naive. Have they deserved all of their bad press? Almost certainly not. But honestly, these are not just tabloid news organizations covering them. And no, I am not saying every cop in each is a bad cop. But there are plenty of bad cops in each, and, I am sure, many other police organizations around the country.

I agree that too many people and even news organizations jump to conclusions too quickly, but this is not limited to police. Politicians and even private citizens have experienced this as well. For the latter, I present as Exhibit A the Duke Lacrosse Team falsely accused and prosecuted for rape, and as Exhibit B Richard Jewel, falsely accused of being the Atlanta Olympic Games bomber.

There are so many anti-police people out there, namely those people who want to drink and drive, do drugs and other sorts of illegal activities without being punished for it.

Keep in mind, some people do not blame police for doing their job, but are opposed to the policies and laws that make certain activities illegal. For instance, I believe the Drug War by the U.S. government to be a joke, and think all drugs, even ones I am not comfortable around, should be legalized (and regulated and taxed). Do I blame cops for arresting people for drugs? No. I blame the lawmakers and the people who think that this Modern Age Prohibition can really work. But that is a whole 'nother debate.

[Gravekeeper]

I've noticed lately, in BC anyway, a strong tendency of people to assume the police are at fault before any evidence is reviewed.

Ugh, I know. Its becoming ridiculous here in BC. The cops in Vancouver can't do *anything* without being accused of brutality, misconduct, etc etc. Its not to say that there haven't been some shitty cops here in the past, there have been. But some people here immediately declare fault even when the officers are following procedure to the absolute letter.

It's really aggravating. I have a coworker whose like this. She's rabidly left wing and immediately blames the police for ANYTHING that happens. I won't even talk to her about anything remotely related to police or politics anymore. She'll sit there and argue for 20 minutes until you she realizes you've stopped talking to her.

Drives me insane. Being a police officer is a pretty thankless job to begin with. Not to mention we work with police on a regular basis at work. I wouldn't trade places with any of them some nights.

Unfortunately, any time someone dies in the lower mainland we're the first to know after the police because we get to help. >< When they're calling in and saying, and I fscking quote: "Err...we need another call out, we found an arm". Gah!

and you want to rag on them because they shot some asshole that got out of a stolen vehicle full of smuggled drugs and rushed an officer with a knife? Yeah, fuck you, honestly. ><