Guns In Public

[Ree]

You knew that permission to reproduce it was granted, but we didn't, as you didn't give a link.

It looked like your own words, so I was confused when I found them in a Google search.

I noticed the sites I was able to find had a copyright. This one does, anyway.

[BlaqueKatt]

If you have the source, could you please provide the links rather than copy/paste due to copyright infringement?

added the link-This report is in the public domain. Authorization to reproduce it in whole or inpart is granted. While permission to reprint this publication is not necessary, the citation should be: Fein, R., Vossekuil, B., Pollack, W., Borum, R., Modzeleski, W., & Reddy, M. Threat Assessment in Schools: A Guide to Managing Threatening Situations and to Creating Safe School Climates. U.S. Department of Education, Office of Elementary and Secondary Education, Safe and Drug-Free Schools Program and U.S. Secret Service, National Threat Assessment Center, Washington, D.C., 2002

[Ree]

Do the police terrify you, <snip>

Hey, BlaqueKatt, a lot of that argument sounds like it came from another website, but you didn't give the link for your source.
Do you still have it?

I found some of it here, and here on page 11, word for word, but haven't been able to locate the rest.
If you have the source, could you please provide the links rather than copy/paste due to possible copyright infringement?

Thanks.

[BlaqueKatt]

Police have extensive training in how to fire guns and how to handle crisis situations.

Many people vastly, and I mean vastly over-estimate the amount of required training given to a LEO, in weapons use and crisis management. They may secure additional training and may spend extra time on the range, but it's not at all required.

yup they are only required 4-16 hours PER YEAR-it's unpaid and must be done in their off duty hours-I have more hours in every month than that.

Add to this that very high-quality weapons handling, crisis management, and general self-defense training is available to the public at large, often for very low price (without effecting quality) especially from the NRA (about as legit as it gets, my friends)

My friend is an armed security guard for a company with it's own private SWAT team(they were called in for Katrina)-he just took a 24 hour(2 12 hour classes) on DAAT(defense and arrest tactics)-they covered everything the police go through-so not much training for that either.

[jackfaire]

I use to always carry a knife and a pair of cuffs. These days the most I can carry is cuffs my work would fire me if I was caught with anything more.

[Nyoibo]

Because carrying a weapon also makes you a target.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Because the element of surprise is a big part of ensuring success. If you carry openly, you're allowing the criminal to have the element of surprise, and you're screwed. One or the other side is going to have this element and it sure as hell shouldn't be the mugger, don't you think?

To say nothing of the fact that open carriers are often harassed in urban areas regardless of legality.

Those inclined to stop their intended crime before it starts will probably do so the moment they realize the weapon is present. Furthermore, no criminal flees just because they see that someone in the area has a gun before they make their move. It's a drawn or otherwise ready weapon that scares criminals off.

In short, Open carry can work, but concealed is much, much better and in no way unreasonable. In this country at least, you're supposed to have a reason for outlawing something and there's really no good reason to eliminate concealed carry permits.

P.S. If you don't understand the tactical mindset, ask someone who does. It is at once way more complicated than many people think, and very simple to those who already understand it. Feel free to ask me any other firearms related questions, as I'm only too happy to answer them. Knowledge is power after all.

[Fryk]

I don't understand the logic of concealed weaponry for the general public. Hell, for anyone. If the point is that would be assailants will back down/flee/not try anything in the first place if they think that their target is armed, wouldn't it make more sense to carry the weapon out in the open? The only advantage I can see in a concealed weapon is the ability to surprise and ambush your opponent. Why is that necessary?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Many people vastly, and I mean vastly over-estimate the amount of required training given to a LEO, in weapons use and crisis management. They may secure additional training and may spend extra time on the range, but it's not at all required.

Add to this that very high-quality weapons handling, crisis management, and general self-defense training is available to the public at large, often for very low price (without effecting quality) especially from the NRA (about as legit as it gets, my friends)

Furthermore, the absence of a firearm doesn't guarantee a non-violent outcome any more than it's presence guarantees the opposite. In the grand majority of CCW, open carry or home/business defense incidents, would-be attackers (even similarly armed ones) fled rather than face an armed victim. The majority of cases don't even require the weapon to be drawn, merely reveals. Fewer still required shots to be fired and fewer still required the death of the attacker.

Also, I'd like to point out that the GRAND majority of CCW holders and practitioners are well trained through their own initiative as well as more than satisfactorily proficient.

There's a big misconception about the standard CCW, in that anti'gunners think of them as random block-heads who just decided one day to get the license and start carrying... this is very far from the truth indeed.

I really understand where you're coming from, I do. As part of my logic process I make sure I understand where the other side is coming from... I feel, however that I'm not getting the same effort in return.

It's perfectly understandable that you would be afraid of guns and people who have them. Especially since you have very little experience with either. But since you don't, what other factors are there, if any, that qualify you as an expert in the downfalls of concealed carry and home defense?

(this being directed at those who disagree with me in general)

[Tanasi]

Blas I don't know about your AO but in mine LEOs are on the clock 24/7 and that includes vacation so they do not have to conceal their sidearms.
In TN our carry permits are for either concealed or open carry. According to state law every place that does not allow must post at all entrances that carry is not allowed and the sign must be of a certain size and the specific wording.
I have a carry permit and I carry. I carry every where I go unless the place is posted no carry. If so posted I usually don't go there unless they have security beyond cameras. I'm not parinoid and I try to stay away from the bad parts of town but you never know when the bugger man is going to pop up.

[muses_nightmare]

Okay, speaking as someone who has had limited experience with guns, and who lives in Canada, I don't believe that the general public should just be allowed to carry a weapon whereever they please. Police officers? Sure, I'm also all for them carrying tasers (a contoversial stance here in BC apparently). They're trained with them, most of the time the general public isn't. Sure some places require you to know how to use it before issuing liscenses, but not all places are like that.

I'm not afraid of guns, but I think they should be more strictly controlled.

[AdminAssistant]

Do the police terrify you, if not why not-they have guns or is it not guns that terrify you but your father-and rather than admit your fear of him you push it onto an inanimate object?

My issues with my father are personal, and in retrospect I shouldn't have brought them on here. To summarize, it's not fear of him for myself, but for him and my mom. He truly is a good man, but depression, alcohol, and psychiatric meds have just about ruined him.

Police have extensive training in how to fire guns and how to handle crisis situations. Many individuals do not, and it is my personal opinion that for many of these people, a gun does more harm than good. What could be a simple robbery could turn into a deadly situation. I lived in a terrible neighborhood in KC, crime was a constant, and I still lean on the side of gun control.

However, I don't think this is something we can agree on, nor is it the point of this thread, so I will be walking away.

[BlaqueKatt]

My father is an alcoholic and has threatened family members and himself with a gun before. So, sorry, I don't like guns, they terrify me now and I will not grow a "thicker skin" about it.

Do the police terrify you, if not why not-they have guns or is it not guns that terrify you but your father-and rather than admit your fear of him you push it onto an inanimate object?

Threat assessment rests on two critical principles: first that all threats and all threateners are not equal; second, that most threateners are unlikely to carry out their threat. However, all threats must be taken seriously and evaluated.

A threat may be a warning signal, a reaction to fear of punishment or some other anxiety, or a demand for attention. It may be intended to taunt; to intimidate; to assert power or control; to punish; to manipulate or coerce; to frighten; to terrorize; to compel someone to do something; to strike back for an injury, injustice or slight; to disrupt someone's or some institution's life; to test authority, or to protect oneself.

Though emotionally charged threats can tell the assessor something about the temperament of the threatener, they are not a measure of danger. They may sound frightening, but no correlation has been established between the emotional intensity in a threat and the risk that it will be carried out.

Low Level of Threat:

A threat which poses a minimal risk to the victim and public safety.

* Threat is vague and indirect.
* Information contained within the threat is inconsistent, implausible or lacks detail.
* Threat lacks realism.
* Content of the threat suggests person is unlikely to carry it out.
Medium Level of Threat:

A threat which could be carried out, although it may not appear entirely realistic.

* Threat is more direct and more concrete than a low level threat.
* Wording in the threat suggests that the threatener has given some thought to how the act will be carried out.
* There may be a general indication of a possible place and time (though these signs still fall well short of a detailed plan).
* There is no strong indication that the threatener has taken preparatory steps, although there may be some veiled reference or ambiguous or inconclusive evidence pointing to that possibility -- an allusion to a book or movie that shows the planning of a violent act or a vague, general statement about the availability of weapons.
* There may be a specific statement seeking to convey that the threat is not empty such as: "I'm serious!" or "I really mean this!".

High Level of Threat:

A threat that appears to pose an imminent and serious danger to the safety of others:

* Threat is direct, specific and plausible.
* Threat suggests concrete steps have been taken toward carrying it out, for example, statements indicating that the threatener has acquired or practiced with a weapon or has had the victim under surveillance.

Sorry, sensitive subject. But yes, people do carry around the damn things, as if you really really need a firearm to go to Wal*Mart or the mall.

feel free to ask Suzanna Hupp about that....

or these survivors...
In the small town of Winnemucca Nevada a man bent on performing a mass
shooting at a bar was stopped by an armed CCW permit holder who
happened to be in the right place at the right time. The alleged mass
murderer had already killed two victims & had injured two others with
gunshot wounds, but after reloading to resume his shooting spree he
was shot & killed by an armed CCW permit holder who was also at the
bar.

here in my fair city of about 223,389 people in the past 7 days we've had 5 assaults(including sexual assault), 9 burglaries, 12 strong arm robberies-for all of last year stats are 10 murders, 50 forcible rapes, 368 robberies(my husband is included in that statistic-thank you), and 463 aggravated assaults.

I would really like to know how you would feel about guns if you had 6 years of martial arts training like my husband-and had two men rob you of your wallet and cell phone(when he took it out to call 911)-on a busy street at around 6pm-my husband was their fifth victim in a row-the others had been severely beaten and dragged to a side street unconscious-NO ONE stopped to help or call the police, until my husband ran in front of a car with the two men chasing him(one had just struck him), they would've done the same to my husband. If one of the victims had had a firearm, it would've saved some suffering-they were never caught-my husband still has mild PTSD from it and his severe depression stems from it. He knew if I had been with him he couldn't have protected me, and god knows what would've happened.

I have two stalkers, both know where I live, and just four blocks from me a girl called 911 while being stabbed to death and the police didn't respond-tell me I don't need my gun.

[AdminAssistant]

My mother has a CC license, and yes, she carries that damn thing everywhere. No matter how much I've begged and pleaded for her to cleanse the house of guns....oh no. My father is an alcoholic and has threatened family members and himself with a gun before. So, sorry, I don't like guns, they terrify me now and I will not grow a "thicker skin" about it. But since both of them cling so fast to their precious weapons, I'm afraid one night they really will kill themselves/each other.

Sorry, sensitive subject. But yes, people do carry around the damn things, as if you really really need a firearm to go to Wal*Mart or the mall.

[jackfaire]

As long as you know how to fire the darn thing, that's all I ask.

That is why in my state the permits are a good thing because to qualify your required to actually learn about the gun you wish to carry not just ooooo look at my pretty new toy.