Of bogus sexual harassment claims and a collage degree myth (long)

[HEMI6point1]

Are you that shocked? You should read some of the other stuff. Including my personal fave in the degrading mag, if a women is ugly, he WILL call them on it.


His opinions on women are very low judging from all his posts.

Are you kidding me? I love women to death. There's a reason why they're known as "the fairer sex."

I was not thinking when I posted that comment about calling people out. If I don't think a woman is attractive, I'll say "She's not my cup of tea."

As sort of an answer to the host's question: Yes. I DO expect heterosexual men to compliment a woman who is completely covered. That may just be because I see it happen a lot, and it happens to me a lot, so to encounter a man who ONLY compliments women when they're showing skin would seem strange to me.

Read my answer to Kimmik's post. The man in my OP's job was probably like mine, company-issued or required stuffy shirts that wouldn't look good on anybody.

I have complimented female co-workers that were dressed in their own clothes.... and covered up.

[HEMI6point1]

So, you don't even know what country it happens, but your automatically taken the male side. Not too shocking there, but why don't you find all the sides, before you automatically go oh that women just wants to take males down cause she's a female and doesn't like men.

The photographer incident happened in the US. I'm just pointing out that in the UK, nudity is not a big deal. If said photog was in the UK, he would probably still be working at that job.

[Dreamstalker]

On the degree/tests subject:

My beef with the standardized tests is just that; they're standardized. Not everyone is good at rote memorization which is what most of them require. I'm not saying that all multiple-choice tests are bad; I do fine on the CompTIA and associated tests because I know and love the material. A lot of people seem to be wired such that if they're not interested in the material (some/most of which is relatively trivial, never to be used again) they just can't invest themselves to memorize it.

I almost went to sign up for ITT until I discovered they're garbage.

When the ex heard I was going into computers all-out (my bachelors is in CS, but the school is technically a liberal arts school so the degree track was fairly basic), he suggested ITT.

A local community college has a certificate program in what I want (highly recommended by a contact in the Treasury Dept who lectures for it) so my plan is to do that in the fall.

[HEMI6point1]

When the ex heard I was going into computers all-out (my bachelors is in CS, but the school is technically a liberal arts school so the degree track was fairly basic), he suggested ITT.

I almost made that mistake. Google ITT complaints and you'll see what I mean.

A co-worker heard me talking about ITT. He said they'll pass people even when they don't show up. One of the complaints I saw online mirrored that - the guy forgot to turn in an assignment but got an A anyway when he looked at the online grading system. He decided to intentionally not turn in the next one - he got a B on it.

From what I read and talked to people, an ITT degree is not worth the paper it's printed on. A Devry degree is at least worth something.

[Rageaholic]

I think this would have been better as two seperate threads seeing as these are two seperate topics.

I let him know something: Some people just aren’t test takers. To which my co-worker said, “The people who spout off that line are usually lazy.” BS, some people I know aren’t “test takers” and they have found great jobs.

People like that piss me off! I've come to the belief that everyone has their own strengths as well as their weaknesses. I know this because I have learning difficulties which make it difficult for me to comprehend certain things (don't get me started on textbooks). For those things, it takes me twice as long to understand them, so I'll be damned if I get called "lazy" for having difficulties with things.

Another thing is that some people (like myself) don’t want to sign up to get a degree in – for example – electrical engineering (something I would like to do) and then have to write term papers on George Washington and William Shakespear as well. I can understand having math courses, but what does the other stuff have to do with electrical engineering?

Man don't get me started. This is such a sour topic for me that I started TWO different threads on it in "things I hate". Yeah, years of grade school isn't enough for this general education crap. HALF of my bachlors degree is general education. I have to take 6 credit hours (2 courses) in religious studies, which also requires a prerequisit of cultural anthropology. I HATE ANTHROPOLOGY!! I could start an entirely different thread on why anthropology sucks. I don't having anything against anyone majoring in anthropology. If that's what they want to do, all the more power to them, but don't make me take it when I'm not interested in it and have already decided what I want to major in. If I absolutely have to take it, than one course should suffice, but I shouldn't have to take 3 when I'm majoring in accounting. (and just because I might learn some useful stuff in those courses doesn't mean I should HAVE to take them to get a degree. I should get to decide that for myself. Some Gen Ed is good, but there is a time when it's overkill)

[Red Panda]

As far as that woman who only got complimented when she showed skin, I highly doubt her claim. Are we suppose to believe she remembers what she was wearing for months on end and what compliments she recieved? The only way I could see that happening is if everything she wore showed skin except for company clothes and then the guy probably complimented her just because she wasn't wearing the normal uniform.

Sexual harrassment can be a problem if you get raped or groped or something but there are too many woman who need to grow a thicker skin and not cry sexual harrassment everytime a guy says they look nice

[HEMI6point1]

As far as that woman who only got complimented when she showed skin, I highly doubt her claim. Are we suppose to believe she remembers what she was wearing for months on end and what compliments she recieved? The only way I could see that happening is if everything she wore showed skin except for company clothes and then the guy probably complimented her just because she wasn't wearing the normal uniform.

+1. At my job when a female co-worker decides to ditch the horrible polo, I'll pay a compliment on it.

Which brings up what you said next....

Sexual harrassment can be a problem if you get raped or groped or something but there are too many woman who need to grow a thicker skin and not cry sexual harrassment everytime a guy says they look nice

There is a difference between "You look nice/pretty today" and "that top really brings out your boobs, good job." The first one is innocent, the second one is most certainly harassment. Same if a boss says to a woman "If you want the job you better have sex with me," or if a guy makes a habit of brushing against a woman's chest and uses the excuse of "not enough walkway space." (Yes that actually happened and yes the guy actually used that excuse)

When I was in NY there was a case were a woman tried to sue her boss for SH. What did he do wrong? Apparently, the man's son came in to his work one day to visit him, saw this woman and was smitten. Son told his father, who then tells the women his son is interested in her. Woman responds by launching an SH complaint stating "it put her in an uncomfortable position." It was later dropped when one of her colleagues revealed that she told her, "There is no way I would even think about going out with his dork of a son." Nice girl, huh? Who knows, he could have been her future husband....

It just makes it harder for the women who have legit complaints to come forward, when BS like this makes the rounds.

[jackfaire]

On bogus sexual harrassments; in the book "Same Difference" they documented a sexual harrassment case where the man was fired.


What happened? Company had two managers one of whom was the best and had the best team going so they asked him to observe another manager, their worst with the worst team performance, and advise her on what she could improve.

Well he was a nice guy who had a relationship with his employees but got stern when he had to. She was mean to her employees all the time.

He said, "Well you could be nice."

She filed a sexual harrassment claim stating, "When he said that I know he really meant I should sleep with him."

Apparently that company hires psychics.

When I was in NY there was a case were a woman tried to sue her boss for SH. What did he do wrong? Apparently, the man's son came in to his work one day to visit him, saw this woman and was smitten. Son told his father, who then tells the women his son is interested in her.

I dont' care if she thought he was the hottest guy ever. It was a legit complaint. Your coworker saying hey my (relative) is interested in you is innocent.

Your boss or any other person that has power over your job saying, Hey my (relative) is interested in you always comes off as a veiled, date them or your fired, threat.

Really there was no reason for the boss to tell her that his son was interested in her unless she had already expressed interest in his son and asked.

I really hope the fact that she thought the guy was a dork was not the reason the claim was thrown out because that is the worst reason ever.

Can you imagine not being allowed to say, "The guy creeps me out," or anything that shows you have a negative view of him for fear that the complaint would be dropped.

[kibbles]

When I was in NY there was a case were a woman tried to sue her boss for SH. What did he do wrong? Apparently, the man's son came in to his work one day to visit him, saw this woman and was smitten. Son told his father, who then tells the women his son is interested in her. Woman responds by launching an SH complaint stating "it put her in an uncomfortable position." It was later dropped when one of her colleagues revealed that she told her, "There is no way I would even think about going out with his dork of a son." Nice girl, huh? Who knows, he could have been her future husband....

It just makes it harder for the women who have legit complaints to come forward, when BS like this makes the rounds.

Glad it was thrown out! It would be different if her boss implied her job depended on it, but if it was an innocent remark, then yes she was a false complainer.

[HEMI6point1]

I dont' care if she thought he was the hottest guy ever. It was a legit complaint. Your coworker saying hey my (relative) is interested in you is innocent.

Your boss or any other person that has power over your job saying, Hey my (relative) is interested in you always comes off as a veiled, date them or your fired, threat.

Really there was no reason for the boss to tell her that his son was interested in her unless she had already expressed interest in his son and asked.

I really hope the fact that she thought the guy was a dork was not the reason the claim was thrown out because that is the worst reason ever.

Can you imagine not being allowed to say, "The guy creeps me out," or anything that shows you have a negative view of him for fear that the complaint would be dropped.

I'm sorry but people like you are the reason SH complaints get filed that should have never been filed in the first place.

There is no difference between a CW or sup saying it, that's just stupid.

The guy who got sued meant it as an innocent conversion, IIRC he even said he never meant it as "date him or you're fired," just wanted to let her know his son was interested.

Any yes her blabbing to her colleague was the reason, you don't go saying the reason you complained was because you were "uncomfortable" then go around and say that the guy was a dork and you wouldn't touch him.

Glad it was thrown out! It would be different if her boss implied her job depended on it, but if it was an innocent remark, then yes she was a false complainer.

As I said above, her boss meant nothing harmful.

[Greenday]

Just a couple fine points:

When you tell a woman, "You look great today!", you are saying her body looks great.

When you tell a woman, "That outfit looks great!", you are complimenting the outfit, not the body.

When you tell a woman, "That outfit looks great on you!", once again, you are complimenting the body.

It's all about how you word it. And some people do not want to feel like people are checking them out all the time.

[muses_nightmare]

"You look great today!"

This just means that the woman in general looks good, it's not necessarily just commenting on her body. Depends on the intonation and such of the person saying it. These things do make a huge difference. There is a huge difference between a tone of voice that is just being friendly and a flirtatious/sexually charged tone of voice. Huge difference.

If someone is offended by a simple casual compliment they have issues. It doesn't make it sexual harassment.

[Greenday]

:shrugs:

While each way compliments something different, just by changing what exactly you are complimenting the result can be drastically different. It's hard to get offended when someone says they like your outfit. People get offended a lot easier when you start talking about their bodies.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Even " X looks good on you" isn't necessarily sex-related either. It may, but it may also simply mean that whatever outfit is being referred to looks better for this person than others and/or compared to alternatives.

Whether or not a comment is intended as a sexual comment can't be derived on words or tone alone. Both can be ambiguous and neither can be relied on solely to determine intent.

IMO comments that are in any way ambiguous as to intent should be something that's brought up, discussed, and addressed. If it's determined to be decisively appropriate or continues to be a problem THEN termination may follow perhaps even warning others about it. As it is, people are getting screwed over for no good reason far too often for my comfort.

[jackfaire]

I'm sorry but people like you are the reason SH complaints get filed that should have never been filed in the first place.

It's different if your boss is a good friend of yours. I am sorry if my boss came to me and said one of his daughters liked me I would feel like he was pressuring me to date her I mean why else would he even get involved in my personal life enough to tell me that.

I have never seen or had anyone ever say, "Hey this person that is close to me likes you" as innocent conversation. It has always been followed up with, "And since I like the both of you then you two should date"

And yes a woman is less likely to feel uncomfortable about sexual advances that are welcome duh.

It doesn't matter if my boss says something affects my job or not if he starts making veiled remarks which yes "My relative wants to date you" is a veiled remark.

Unless it was followed up by "Laugh isn't that so ridiculous" then yes it is a veiled remark that implies your job somehow hinges on this fact that the boss had no reason or need to tell you. I love my boss but I have never worked for one where a comment like that wouldn't feel like an implication.

And yes if my boss thinks it appropriate to get involved in my personal life then I consider it equally likely that he takes that into account when it comes time for performance reviews.

"Hmmm wouldn't date my daughter so not really a team player now is he"