Schools giving students unexcused absences...

[KnitShoni]

while i don't necessarily agree with the reasoning, school-sanctioned events such as your daughter's trip or the choir's performance are still considered time in school, and therefore the same set of rules is being applied.

I could see that if I didn't have to send something saying they were on these trips, or the absences would be counted against them. Attendance is taken on these trips. Why do I have to verify they were there if their director has already done so?

[linguist]

Actually, they can make up for missed work with unexcused absences, as well. Since they've changed the policy on how absences are dealt with, there is no real difference between excused and unexcused unless you actually reach that 9+ absence mark and have to go before the appeals board.

ah, i see. that's changed from when i was in school. we weren't allowed to make up any work we missed during an unexcused absence.

[Greenday]

This is a bad argument. Students shouldn't take any days off just because they might get sick? If people stopped taking time off from their lives just because something might happen, no one would ever do something fun. I'm not going to avoid taking vacation at work just because I might get sick later, and no, I don't get vacation or sick time yet, so it is an accurate comparison.

My mom used that argument all the time. "What if you get sick?" Then I'll do the same thing when I skip and I'm not sick: get notes from friends, teach myself, and pass with a good grade anyway.

[Hobbs]

This is a bad argument. Students shouldn't take any days off just because they might get sick? If people stopped taking time off from their lives just because something might happen, no one would ever do something fun. I'm not going to avoid taking vacation at work just because I might get sick later, and no, I don't get vacation or sick time yet, so it is an accurate comparison.

Then that's your problem if you use up all your allowance for sick days. Some people, however, get sick often (like my brother) so they must be a bit more responsible of their free time and sick time allotments[sic].

[the_std]

however, if they do take time off, and then they do get sick, and the cumulative absences push them over the limit, they should be prepared to deal with the consequences of their decision to take time off.

Almost every argument made in this thread for kids being allowed to take off has stipulated that they should be allowed to do so if they're prepared to deal with the consequences - extra work, catching up, that fun stuff. So why bring it up again?

[KnitShoni]

ah, i see. that's changed from when i was in school. we weren't allowed to make up any work we missed during an unexcused absence.

Neither were we. At that time, every teacher who's class you missed had to sign the note you brought from home/the doctor, and it was turned in at the end of the day. If you didn't have that note, no make-up work, you just took a zero.

[linguist]

Almost every argument made in this thread for kids being allowed to take off has stipulated that they should be allowed to do so if they're prepared to deal with the consequences - extra work, catching up, that fun stuff. So why bring it up again?

they should do that anyway, regardless of their reason for missing, but in this specific case the rules as written give consequences for excessive absences, so those are the only consequences that matter in the argument at hand.

[Greenday]

they should do that anyway, regardless of their reason for missing, but in this specific case the rules as written give consequences for excessive absences, so those are the only consequences that matter in the argument at hand.

Because we are suggesting good alternatives to the current rules which suck.

[linguist]

Because we are suggesting good alternatives to the current rules which suck.

so basically what you're saying is the rules shouldn't apply to you because you don't agree with them.

[Greenday]

so basically what you're saying is the rules shouldn't apply to you because you don't agree with them.

Can you quote me where I said we should have different sets of rules?

I'll save you time. No, you can't, because I never said that.

I said that everyone should be allowed to skip now and then. I said people need to take personal responsibility and know their own capabilities. I said that if you miss class, you have to deal with the consequences of making up the material which is punishment enough for everyone.

[KnitShoni]

they should do that anyway, regardless of their reason for missing, but in this specific case the rules as written give consequences for excessive absences, so those are the only consequences that matter in the argument at hand.

Except, in some places, such as where we are, there is little difference between the consequences for excused absences and those for unexcused. Too many children with high grades have been kept back or had to fight with the school district to be promoted because of absences. Going to class everyday is not going to guarantee success. Yes, my kids have to have a reason to be out of school. That doesn't mean I think they should be made to go to school on those days when every child in the district is doing nothing but staring at the walls. Those days are not productive. Does attendance on those days really need to be mandatory?

[linguist]

I'll save you time. No, you can't, because I never said that.

you may not have said the words, but the implication was there. you can think the current rules suck all you like, but until such time as they change you still have to operate within the confines of the current rule system, and bitching about it doesn't change that fact.

Going to class everyday is not going to guarantee success.

no, it's not going to guarantee success. however, attendance is the single greatest predictor of academic success.

[Greenday]

you may not have said the words, but the implication was there. you can think the current rules suck all you like, but until such time as they change you still have to operate within the confines of the current rule system, and bitching about it doesn't change that fact.

Where are you coming up with this stuff? I never said it was okay to disobey the rules. I just suggested a good rule change. Never said not to follow the current ones. There was absolutely no implication whatsoever.

[jedimaster91]

Going to class everyday is not going to guarantee success. Yes, my kids have to have a reason to be out of school. That doesn't mean I think they should be made to go to school on those days when every child in the district is doing nothing but staring at the walls. Those days are not productive. Does attendance on those days really need to be mandatory?

This drove me nuts in high school. I took several AP classes, which are basically high school classes you can take for college credits. The whole point is to take the AP exam at the end of the year, but there's always several weeks of school left after AP exams. What's the point of going those days? I had to waste my time staring at the wall just so the district could make money. I could have done something useful with my time like picking up extra work hours, college preperations, family obligations, etc.

[Rageaholic]

Going back reading this, I think KabeRinnaul has said it the best. What it comes down to is the schools saying they know what's best for everyone else and if parents don't go by their standards, they will penalize them. It's why I have such little respect for the schools. (and it goes well beyond this unexcused absenses).

The arguement I see in favor of these rules is that not agreeing with the rules makes you entitled.

http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=2926

This is so flawed. No one is asking for the school to do anything for them. They are paying for the trip, they are making the decision, and they are responsible for making up what they missed (at least that's how my parents saw it). As greenday said, it's all on them and only them. Either they catch up despite missing class (which proves they are capible) or they don't and fail. The worst thing that happens is they don't get caught up and fail. If they are so worried about students failing, THEN WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY FAIL THEM JUST FOR 'UNEXCUSED' ABSENSES?

Again, it's not asking for the school to do anything. At worst, they'd have to let the students know what they are going to miss, which is normally not a problem with a class syllabus. But I guess because the public school system knows better than everyone else, allowing that would be too hard for their percious egos.

If not taking crap for a know it all, control freak institution makes one an entitlement whore, than I'd consider that a badge of honor.