Child abuse?

[Rapscallion]

We're all quite familiar with stories of children who were beaten, but how far should the definition of child abuse go?

The RSPCC (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children) revealed some five years ago or so that a child was abused every three seconds in the UK. It didn't take too long for enquiring minds to find out that this statistic was bumped up by them including estimates of a child being talked about behind its back, which could be detrimental.

So, let's take the chance to look at the situation of a morbidly obese child - one that is nearly spherical due to consumption of food. I'm fully aware that there are people in the world who have genuine medical problems and simply cannot lose weight. However, I am painfully aware that these people are in the extreme minority - less than one percent of morbidly obese have conditions such as these, if the figures I've been given by my mother (a nurse) are correct.

In the situation of the above morbidly obese child, is this neglect and cruelty on the part of the parents involved? If you bought a dog, you'd be expected to take it for a walk every day. Not doing so would be considered unhealthy for the animal in question. Children are not dogs, but they require exercise for the same reason. Medical science has proved time and again that being overweight leads to more health problems later in life (I've got that to look forward to...).

Would you define parents who refused to get their child to exercise and lose weight cruel?

Rapscallion

[Ree]

To me, a parent who would allow a child to become so morbidly obese is guilty of child abuse.

That is neglect, pure and simple.

Before judging, though, based simply on the fact that you see a parent out in public with a hugely obese child, it's important to really know the facts.
There are genuine medical cases that really aren't as rare as one would think.
Praeder Willi syndrome is considered rare, but affects 1 in 10,000 to 15,000 people, and is one of the 10 most common genetic conditions diagnosed by science.
A young girl in her early teens could also have PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrome.

Pica and Hypothyroidism are also possibilities.

These are all extreme underlying causes, but a possibility to consider, nonetheless, before casting stones at the parents.

I, personally, grew up with a weight problem. My sisters and brothers were all thin, but I was the 'fatty' in the family.
Sometimes, it's just a genetic predisposition to gain weight.

That being said, if one is absolutely sure that the obese child is that way because a parent has failed to monitor the physical activity levels and caloric intake of the child, then one can say that those parents are just as guilty of abuse as those who would physically beat a child.

Even with all the above genuine medical causes of obesity, a parent still has a duty to find out as much as possible about the condition and do everything possible to make sure the child is receiving adequate medical treatment and that their lifestyle is conducive to maintaining a healthy weight.

Just last week, I was at a Craft Fair. There was a little boy who looked to be about 9 years old. The child was obese. He could barely walk, his thighs were so fat. He just kind of waddled.
He was either with grandparents or elderly parents, and he seemed to have a little brother. All other members of the family were normal weight.
From watching the little boy, I wondered if he did have some underlying problem, and I suspect he did, as he had some pretty 'babyish' and abnormal behaviours, but he also had obviously neglectful parents.
There was a table where a lady was selling handmade gingerbread, painted with icing and food colouring. (Gorgeous!!) She had a space where children could decorate their own gingerbread men.
This little boy had his heaped with icing, and topped with so much candy garnish that is was falling off the sides as he was eating. His parents laughed it off and said, "Ten second rule," when he picked up the dropped candy and cookie bits off the floor and ate them.
I wanted to reach over and smack them across the back of the head and tell them to get a clue.
First of all, if they were going to allow him to have the cookie, they should have stood by while he was decorating it and made sure he wasn't a little pig about it. They should also have cleaned up the dropped candy and thrown it in the garbage, and not allowed the child to eat it. That was disgusting.
So, while I do think there was a possible medical reason for that little boy's obesity, I also think his parents were not doing their job properly.

[Barefootgirl]

See, if the kid was fat and his parents were slim/normal sized, I would be more inclined to interpret that as a possibly medical issue. Fat people frequently have fat children, and its not because their fatness is hereditary or has a genetic element, 9 times out of 10 its becasue the fat parents eat a poor diet and serve giant portions.

Obviously in this case the kid's weight seems to be more down to poor parenting than an actual illness.

[Rapscallion]

I had to blink at your tale, Ree. That's disgusting. I would genuinely classify that as child abuse. Sure, the child loves the food, but seeing what should be seen as treats as regular food is setting someone up for a lifetime of trouble.

Thanks for the statistics. The Praeder Wili syndrome - is that one of the common medical causes of obesity? The one in ten thousand figure is common with a population the size we have in the modern world, but it's still 0.01%. If there were, as a ballpark figure, twenty genuine conditions for obesity (feel free to add fact to this), that would make for about 0.2% of the population having a condition that caused obesity.

The UK has an obesity rate of about 22% (according to the BBC), which would mean that, if my assumption above is correct, approximately one percent of obese people in the UK have a genuine cause for their size. Obviously, the numbers will vary with more accurate information, but I can't see that many more than five percent of people with obesity - especially including me - are in that position simply because they ate more food than they used.

Hmm - some drift occuring already...

To bring this back on topic, cases such as those are extreme, and they seem to me to be perfect examples of gebuine maltreatment (not that the child would see it as such). However, how far should that be taken?

A child wants to sit inside and read books instead of going outside and getting some exercise and socialising with friends. If said child didn't get much exercise and needed to lose weight to attain a more normal figure, would that be classified as abuse? I'm talking about a child who may be twenty pounds over their ideal weight, rather than double the BMI they should have.

Rapscallion

[Ree]

I admitted in my post that those conditions mentioned were extreme, and in some cases, rare, but they do exist to some extent.

I had no idea that Praeder Willi wasn't as rare as I thought, until I was reading statistics on it in some information that came from the service club to which my husband belongs. They sponsor a research center in Alabama that deals specifically with childhood develomental conditions and illnesses.

I am not disputing at all that obesity is almost epidemic, and a large majority of it is due to taking in more calories than the body is burning.

My reference to those extreme examples was simply to point out that in the case of the "morbidly obese child - one that is nearly spherical due to consumption of food," there may be more than meets the eye, for a child to be that large.

[Rapscallion]

Indeed, there may be a medical reason, but with the above estimates then it's approximately one percent of the obese people around. It's a pretty good guess that most of the people you see do not have a condition such as that.

Even if a child does and their parents allow them to eat unhealthily, then that counts in my book as abuse.

Rapscallion

[Ree]

And, again, I didn't disagree on that point at all.

[Giggle Goose]

I don't know if any of you have ever seen the talk shows on TV that talk about this topic; but it's been talked about a lot. I've struggled with weight all my life; it is true that metabolism, etc., can be inherited. HOWEVER, you should see some of the guests on these shows! If you, as a parent, know that you have a hard time keeping the weight off, then WHY IN THE WORLD would you be giving your toddlers (and in some cases infants) things like fast food (adult-sized portions) and soda? This one lady fed her child root beer through a bottle! And each of the guests would have their child's "daily diet" shown; it looked like stuff that would be too much for some of my frat-boy neighbors!

A lot of these parents are pretty chubby themselves and probably have a hard time keeping weight off; and a lot of them say: "It would be child abuse to not give them what they want." Well, I say: it's child abuse to NOT teach them healthy habits now and introduce nutritious and healthy foods at such a pivotal age. These parents are setting their kids up for a lifetime of health problems and all the stigma that comes with being overweight, so yes, it is indeed child abuse!!!!! Rant over.

[Knightmare]

I was a fat child, but it was genetic. I didn't have any of those diseases mentioned. I just grew into being fat. I was a normal baby and toddler, but when I turned 6 or 7, I just started getting fat. Yes, I ate a LOT. But I had to. My parents did moderate my food intake. I did eat healthy foods, but in large quantities. But when I hit puberty, it evened out. I lost a lot of weight, gained muscle. In high school I was tall, muscular and very fit. But I still ate a lot.
Today, I am still tall (duh! ) but much thinner. I don't eat as much anymore.
So you can't always say it's child abuse; it could be a genetic. My youngest brother was the same way as I was.

Here in America there is a huge problem with child obesity. Too much fast food (that tastes like sh*t), families not sitting down at the dinner table, single parents (I am NOT saying single parents are bad parents! I'm talking about the time involved with career vs. family time. Sometimes fast food is easier - believe me, I know from experience), etc.

[Cutenoob]

Language Warning

Me, I had a bit of the genetics and medicals.

Since I was taking an anti seizure drug, one of the side effects was UPPED APPETITE. Ironically, the drug itself was dosed based on the bmi or person's size. More you took, more you ate, more you wanted, run in circles and dont stop.

I was 8 or 9...and suffering from parental neglect. Neglect as in the regular doesnt pay attention to her neglect. Add insta-nag onto that yelling at me to not eat anything (but i'm fuckin hungry, its the drug) and oh boy you get a screwed up kid.

My mom was always worried about herself being fat, and THAT rubbed off on me too.

I couldnt win. I felt fat. I got called fat. Everyone at home nagged the fuck out of me fat.

Honestly, I wasnt. Looking back now, I was a healthy sized kid, maybe a bit above normal (10# or so) but not bad.

The kids I see nowadays are plain FAT. I've seen little 5-6 year olds that look like the Blueberry girl in Willy Wonka. And to me, hankering to every whim and whine and GIMME is not being a parent. It's neglecting your role: sometimes you gotta be enemy, sometimes you gotta be hard. Sometimes you wont be smiled on, but you damn well better have a pair, or else the kid wont learn.

In my times (age ) I wasnt allowed to play Nintendo for 8 hours a day. I had chores to do, things to get done besides homework, and plus, since my parents were gits, I liked to go bike riding. I liked getting out. I was responsible for growing raspberries in our back yard. It was my job to mow lawn and keep it trimmed/ pretty. And Washing the car, truck, and driveway.....lots of things.

Plus, we had a dinner every nite at 6:30. Sunday was big dinner nite, and leftovers for coming week/ lunches. The routine helped a lot, also homecooking instead of take-out.

One question I have is: arent these fatkid parents taking the kids in for checkups yearly? And when doing that, doesnt a doctor have to remind them: lose a few##?? Being this overwieght this early can really have long term health problems for a person!

I think our current society is too...scattered...to be healthy.

Cutenoob

[Kelly Lynne]

To bring this back on topic, cases such as those are extreme, and they seem to me to be perfect examples of gebuine maltreatment (not that the child would see it as such). However, how far should that be taken?

A child wants to sit inside and read books instead of going outside and getting some exercise and socialising with friends. If said child didn't get much exercise and needed to lose weight to attain a more normal figure, would that be classified as abuse? I'm talking about a child who may be twenty pounds over their ideal weight, rather than double the BMI they should have.

Rapscallion

I definitely don't think that this example constitutes abuse. If anything, the parent might do more harm by forcing the kid to exercise or putting them on a diet. If exercise becomes a hated thing that your parents make you do, you might be less likely to continue it as a habit as an adult. That, and anything that teaches kids to worry about their weight or overanalyze their food choices at a young age might well set them up for an eating disorder.

Now, should the parent of the overweight child provide healthy snacks and meals, tell them "no" when they want to go past reasonable limits for soda and junk food, and encourage the kid to be active? Of course. However, having a child be overweight, unless there's gross negligence on the parent's part, (ignoring a serious weight problem and letting the kid eat whatever they want all the time) is not abuse.

For one thing, genetics is a big component of weight. There are kids (and adults) who can eat anything and everything and be thin, and people who tend to be heavy even though they eat reasonably and exercise. I'm not talking about genetic diseases, as those are rare, but simple metabolism.

Also, as it's been explained to me, there's a difference between "bad parenting" and "abuse." (This is speaking as an American and former schoolteacher in Pennsylvania. Other states/countries may have different standards.) If a child is overweight to the point that it's a health problem, and the parent doesn't at least make an effort to find a way to help the kid get their weight under control, that parent might not be doing a very good job. However, there has to be true neglect or serious harm before you can call it abuse. And, unfortunately, being overweight is the norm for lots of people. For an overweight parent who hasn't been successful in getting their own weight down and who might make some poor eating choices themselves, it seems pretty far-fetched to expect them to ensure that their kid maintains a healthy weight.

[AFPheonix]

How many parents force their kids onto an elliptical trainer? Not very many.

A parent can "force" a kid to exercise by making it fun to do, doing something that might not on it's face look like exercise, but it gets the job done.
Heck, it doesn't even need to be fun, it could be chores or going an volunteering to rake some little old lady's leaves.
Is some obesity due to genetics or hormonal issues? Yes, but the overwhelming majority of us fat people (and I'll include myself in this, as I'm packing about 20 more pounds than I ought to) are fat because of our eating habits and lifestyle.

[Kelly Lynne]

How many parents force their kids onto an elliptical trainer? Not very many.

Probably almost none. But, if letting your kid become overweight is grounds for abuse and can get them taken away from you and you thrown in jail, then if the other, better ideas (like the ones you suggested below) don't work out as well as expected, I can imagine that a parent might put a great deal of pressure on an overweight kid to exercise. Not necessarily physically dragging the kid onto the elliptical trainer, but punishing them if they don't do a certain amount of exercise each day, etc. Obsessing, and therefore causing the kid to obsess.

...making it fun to do, doing something that might not on it's face look like exercise, but it gets the job done. Heck, it doesn't even need to be fun, it could be chores or going an volunteering to rake some little old lady's leaves.

Like I said, those are excellent ideas & exactly how a parent should encourage kids to exercise. I just worry that if we defined letting a kid become overweight as child abuse, parents would be so pressured to have their kids slim down *right now* that they wouldn't necessarily go with the common-sense approach. (You only have to look at all the diet pills, fad diets, and eating disorders to realize that people often don't take a common-sense approach to weight loss for themselves, either.)

Is some obesity due to genetics or hormonal issues? Yes, but the overwhelming majority of us fat people (and I'll include myself in this, as I'm packing about 20 more pounds than I ought to) are fat because of our eating habits and lifestyle.

In most cases, I think it's a combination of things, and that it tends to build on itself. Someone with a lower-key metabolism (due to thyroid issues, or maybe that's just how your body works), is less likely to get enough exercise. Then they pack on some extra pounds, which drops their energy level further, and they're likely to gain even more weight. If they have a sedentary job or don't eat right (or both) that makes it even more likely.

Yes, most of it is within an individual's control, to some extent.

[rdp78]

Well, on Dr. Phil today they talked about overweight boys and how their families are dealing with it. In many ways their parents were to blame but I don't think any one was accuse of abuse even through some were in denial and yes, they got help. I've seen other talk shows about big babies and overweight children where the parents are in denial about the problem. I think Dr. Phil had girl on with Praeder Wili syndrome a while back (I'm not sure when it was) and maybe another kid with it but I do remember the girl's mother was quite abusive when it came to her eating habits.

Anyway I remember oh, years ago a story about a girl being taken away from her mother becuase she was obesse and the mother kept feeding her. Some people didn't think it was right and defended the mother for feeding her kid. Also I think the mother said if she denied the kid food and starved her then yeah that would be consider negilect. I think the mother wasn't educated enough about nutrient and health in general.

Anyway I think it is hard to determine if a child is abuse simply because they are obesse and if they are being over fed. I mean if a child is just skin and bones then yes they are being neglect by the parents so they should be taken away. However, if the child is much bigger then they should be then it is harder to tell if they are being neglect and if the parents are to blame for it even through they are responsible to do something about it. Of course, there is genes and Praeder Wili syndrome to consider if a child is overweight.