Occupy, What are they trying to do?

[jackfaire]

This isn't about whether they are naive or misguided or criminal this is an honest wondering if someone can tell me what exactly the protest is about.

Every morning my bus goes by their camp and every afternoon I pass by on the other side and every side of it that I see has so many signs saying so many things many having little to nothing to do with the other.

So honestly can someone tell me what the goal is?

What do they want?

[Gravekeeper]

Been over this a number of times in other threads, so lets just go with the Grayson sum up again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9tkKVDQdw

[jackfaire]

Okay so that's what Occupy Wall Street is about what about the other ones?

I am serious cuz I see signs for everything from "get out of Afghanistan and Iraq" to "renewable energy now" It's like 5 different protest marches collided in a park.

Cuz I figured that the original statement of purpose was what it was about but now it seems in many cities like that message is getting diluted.

[Gravekeeper]

Okay so that's what Occupy Wall Street is about what about the other ones?

I am serious cuz I see signs for everything from "get out of Afghanistan and Iraq" to "renewable energy now" It's like 5 different protest marches collided in a park.

Cuz I figured that the original statement of purpose was what it was about but now it seems in many cities like that message is getting diluted.

Quite a few different issues have jumped onboard, yeah. Considering how long its been going on, that's not really surprising. Its sort of become a lightning rod for everything that's wrong.

[jackfaire]

That's where I get all confused cuz it feels like trying to do too much and thus not getting anything done. You know where like if you try to cook three different meals at the same time and mess up dinner cuz you spent too much time on something for lunch.

[Gravekeeper]

That's where I get all confused cuz it feels like trying to do too much and thus not getting anything done. You know where like if you try to cook three different meals at the same time and mess up dinner cuz you spent too much time on something for lunch.

The fundmental issue is universal: A disparity in wealth and power, the hop along issues are just riding the coat tails. In essence, everything is fucked up, people are really mad and they aren't going to take it anymore. So people are seeing other people out there and going "You know what? They're fucking right! I'm mad too!". Hence the movement spread so damn far and has been going on for so long.

The US media seems to like drudging up the hop alongs though, as they provide the most entertainment value.

[HYHYBT]

Usual protests, though, end. People show up, protest for a few hours or a day, and then go home. Surely these will not go on forever, but what would end this? (Particularly, what will end this in a peaceful manner?)

[bara]

Usual protests, though, end. People show up, protest for a few hours or a day, and then go home. Surely these will not go on forever, but what would end this? (Particularly, what will end this in a peaceful manner?)

A restructuring on the way extreme wealth is taxed, salary caps, worthless people not getting billion dollar bonuses while claiming they cust costs by lay offs.

Just a few ideas.

[Rapscallion]

Given what's happening with OWS etc, I suspect the thread about civil war in the US is actually more likely, and the first shots will be fired by those with the means to afford them to keep those without the means to afford them in their places. Some would say that's already happening.

The disparity between haves and have-nots is worsening. The haves don't seem to realise they need the have-nots in order to make more money, but also to have the ratio of wealth over (it's not always about having, but how much more you have).

I suspect it will end in blood or slavery.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

I suspect it will end in blood or slavery.

I'd put money on that in the end, things will be pretty similar to they are now. The "1%" need everyone else to survive and the "99%" need the people who run businesses and own corporations to keep everything in society going.

I have a question. Since the main thing most people seem to agree on is tax the hell out of the rich, cut spending, when we finally get positive, are we going to cut taxes for the rich people who will be paying a bigger portion? Somehow I doubt it. I'd be willing to be the 99% will say screw the 1% and cut taxes for the 99%.

[Gravekeeper]

I have a question. Since the main thing most people seem to agree on is tax the hell out of the rich, cut spending, when we finally get positive, are we going to cut taxes for the rich people who will be paying a bigger portion? Somehow I doubt it. I'd be willing to be the 99% will say screw the 1% and cut taxes for the 99%.

Its not "tax the Hell out of the rich" its just getting them to straight up pay their fair share of said tax. The rich are, right now, already in possession of a massive tax cut courtesy of the Bush tax cuts which as you may recall the GOP fought to retain like Obama was trying to set their baby on fire. What they pay now is not normal and the most impressive thing they've pulled off at the moment is convincing people that it is. Cutting taxes for the 99% really does nothing in the grand scheme of things. They don't make enough if anything to begin with for tax cut to matter that much and you'd just end up with even less money with which to operate the government.

But, once again, the rich already have a tax cut in effect and are basically desperately trying to convince everyone that their tax rate is perfectly normal and has always been this way.

[Rapscallion]

In the end, sure, but you've got to get past thef act that there's almost a de-facto slavery system going on in the US, where the haves are happy for a minimum wage that keeps have-nots from being just able to survive, yet holding out the carrot that one day they may be the haves themselves.

The carrot is getting harder and harder for people to attain. It still happens, but the powers that exist are more than happy for an illusion to persist.

What really pisses me off is how people who are massively disadvantaged by this system are some of the loudest proponents, on the basis that at some point they'll maybe get that carrot.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

What really pisses me off is how people who are massively disadvantaged by this system are some of the loudest proponents, on the basis that at some point they'll maybe get that carrot.

This is, in essence, the entire problem in a nutshell. Trickle down economics, aka "Fuck ya'll, I got mine". The American Dream(tm). People stupidly defend the upper class because the entire basis of the country is basically "One day, you could be in the 1% too". So they defend it not because its in their best interest, but because they think that one day, somehow, they'll make it big or win the lottery or something and be in that 1%, and when they do they don't want a cent of their money given to anyone else. For any reason.

Fuck ya'll, I got mine. -.-

[Rapscallion]

Well, perhaps even 'Fucky'all, I might get mine."

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

The "1%" need everyone else to survive and the "99%" need the people who run businesses and own corporations to keep everything in society going.

Not really. There are likely hundreds of replacements waiting in the wings who can do nearly as well for a fraction of the cost.

What really pisses me off is how people who are massively disadvantaged by this system are some of the loudest proponents, on the basis that at some point they'll maybe get that carrot.

Right. It's this massive disconnect from reality that pisses me off, as well.

There's a guy I work with who is not one of the Haves but has so bought into the idea that he can be one day with a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck (oh, yeah, and a decent chunk of money to start out with ), that he accepts what the Have media has to say without question. He's started not talking issues with me or my boyfriend due to the fact that we shoot gaping holes in any argument he puts forth and fill them with a plethora of facts and figures. He has nothing to fight with because he's depressing ignorant of the facts, knowing only the rhetoric of the Haves.

There is a class war going on, and it's been going on for generations. It's just that it's finally gotten so bad that enough of the Have Nots are getting past the point of being fed up that they're ready to start making some waves over it.

And the longer the Haves try to handwave that this is how it's always been and the Have Nots are just bitter because their jealous or some bullshit like that, the closer we get to real violence over the matter. And, honestly, I'm not sure that's not exactly what the Haves want, so they have an excuse to be even bigger assholes, particularly since they know they're so far above the fray that they likely won't even be hit by the blood spatter when it starts.

^-.-^