Mail Order Chicken Pox!

[Panacea]

That said, why are vaccines bad again? Seems like every new vaccine now comes with a "zomigawd it turned my child disabled!" story from some lunatic and/or politician.

Most kids get the majority of their vaccinations between 18 months and age 3. That's when most kids are diagnosed with autism, so many people have made the leap that the vaccines cause the autism when it's just a coincidence of bad timing.

The matter has been completely scientifically researched. It's not the vaccines. It's not the thimerosol that used to be in the vaccines as a preservative. We still don't know what causes autism. What we do know is it has nothing to do with vaccination.

Recent research in the area indicates the problem may start in utero. Scientists are looking at other environmental factors (including mercury), since it doesn't seem to be genetic.

Being 40 I honestly do not know if I was immunized for it and it just failed, or if I just caught it on my own at the age of 7.

But in my case there were no Pox Parties or none of that nonsense. I just caught it from someone else who had it at school and was the resident plague rat.

But as much as I don't agree with the idea of the Pox Parties, back before the vaccine was readily available there was a logic behind it. Children who have it, rarely get it again in their lives, and as children they get a much milder set of symptoms.

We may not agree, but there was sound reasoning behind them.

You're too old to have gotten the vaccine. It wasn't available in the US until 1995. It may have been available in other Western countries earlier than that, though.

However, Pox Parties were NEVER a logical idea. It never makes sense to deliberately expose yourself to a disease.

So exactly how bad is CP for an adult? I've never had it, but I got two kids who could get it at any time

Adults often have to be hospitalized, and they can die from it.

Talk to your doctor about vaccination for yourself. Did you vaccinate your kids?

[lordlundar]

Umm, here's a perspective that hasn't been brought up yet. The parties involved can face charges of terrorism for this. Why? The items they are shipping is considered bio-hazardous materials. Considering that chicken pox can be far more dangerous in adults and a number of adults must handle the items in shipping, the people responsible are intentionally shipping known dangerous materials without proper precautions.

[Rapscallion]

That said, why are vaccines bad again? Seems like every new vaccine now comes with a "zomigawd it turned my child disabled!" story from some lunatic and/or politician.

Panacea covered areas I'd not thought of, but since I work in the health food industry in wholesale and get plenty of people wanting medical information that I cannot give (not yet on this basis).

I came to the conclusion that they want someone to blame. They're parents and they're the ones looking after their children. Someone or something did this to their children. They know they didn't do it, and they're not willing to settle for, "Shit happens" and it being nobody's fault. They don't necessarily want monetary recompense, they just want a guilty party.

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

As mentioned in another thread on another topic, people fear the idea that the world is a big and scary place where bad shit happens to good people.

It's much more comforting to believe that all bad shit happens because of bad people, and that if you're good and you make sure everybody else is good, then the bad shit can be kept at bay. Completely delusional, but a lot of folks need their delusions to keep sane.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

It never makes sense to deliberately expose yourself to a disease.

What was that, German measles that's mostly just a nuisance unless you're pregnant? They used to have parties for that, because there was no vaccine and it at least cut down the possibility of catching it at a worse time.

[Eisa]

Recent research in the area indicates the problem may start in utero. Scientists are looking at other environmental factors (including mercury), since it doesn't seem to be genetic.

Mercury wouldn't surprise me. I did my senior seminar project on the effects of prenatal methylmercury on rats (and whether dietary selenium ameliorated the effects). Mercury is nasty shit. -shudders- Seriously nasty. It fucks you up. And does do learning defects, cerebral palsy, and other stuff that fucks with development, so...it would make sense if it fucked with autism, as well.



Anyway. See a "pox party" or whatever makes sense to me. 'Cause usually if someone in your circle of friends has it as a kid, you're going to get it, too. Kids share germs. (I'm still pissed about getting strep in sixth grade 'cause my friend's mom told her she wasn't contagious. Guess what. She was.) So like, that makes sense, 'cause to me it's more like speeding up what would have happened, anyway.

But sending chicken pox lollies through the mail? Is so phenomenally stupid, my brain broke.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm really kind of leaning towards not being in favor of the vaccine for small children, but if I hadn't had a nice nasty case of CP when I was about six, and had never had the disease, at my age I'd go on and get the vaccine. Especially if I were a dad, in DrF's case. I think it's even more dangerous for men.

I'm not against vaccines...but I am against the willy nilly mindless string of vaccines without thinking about what you're doing and simply trusting that drug companies have your best interest at heart. They don't. What is best for you is not the same thing as what is best for them. And you can be sure of one thing and one thing only: They are doing what is best for them.

Vaccines are like anything else in the medical or technology field...educate yourself and make an informed decision the best you can. Don't just blindly trust what you are told by people with agendas.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I had chicken pox when I was six; my older brother caught it and very kindly shared it with me and my two little brothers. So there were four of us sick at the same time, with my mum going nuts looking after it all.

I don't agree with this idea of sending it thru the mail. What if someone with a lowered immune system handles the package, catches the chicken pox and then dies? Would that count as manslaughter? At best, it's extremely irresponsible.

[Panacea]

Umm, here's a perspective that hasn't been brought up yet. The parties involved can face charges of terrorism for this.

I actually brought this up in my first post

It's not too likely with chicken pox since the virus doesn't live very long outside a human body. Problem is, when you order something like that through the mail you really don't know WHAT you're getting unless you have an electron microscope tucked away in the garage.

What was that, German measles that's mostly just a nuisance unless you're pregnant? They used to have parties for that, because there was no vaccine and it at least cut down the possibility of catching it at a worse time.

It is true, rubella (German measles) is usually a self limiting disease, mild, and serious complications are rare except in pregnant women (rubella will cause an abortion in 1 of 5 cases, and can result in congenital heart defects of the developing fetus).

However, having a pox party for rubella makes little sense because it IS a self limiting disease. By trying to self infect a large number of people, what you do is expose a larger segment of the population to the disease, increasing the risk of transmission to a pregnant woman. You can't reliably infect enough people with "pox parties" to generate herd immunity, but you CAN increase the spread of the disease to unintended parties.

It's the systematic vaccination efforts that reach the vast majority of the population that creates the herd immunity that protects the few people whose immunity has either worn off, or who for some reason never got vaccinated in the first place.

Mercury wouldn't surprise me. I did my senior seminar project on the effects of prenatal methylmercury on rats (and whether dietary selenium ameliorated the effects). Mercury is nasty shit. -shudders- Seriously nasty. It fucks you up. And does do learning defects, cerebral palsy, and other stuff that fucks with development, so...it would make sense if it fucked with autism, as well.

Dimethylmercury is even worse. But yeah, it's nasty shit, and methylmercury is a byproduct of a lot of industrial processes . . . and it's in our food supply. I'm very thankful I don't like tuna.

Anyway. See a "pox party" or whatever makes sense to me. 'Cause usually if someone in your circle of friends has it as a kid, you're going to get it, too. Kids share germs.

See my comment to HYHYBT above It's true, kids spread germs. Getting them not to share things is next to impossible and not worth the effort to try. If they have something serious, it is best to isolate them. But pox parties are unreliable to create immunity, risk unintended serious side effects, and can't match vaccination.

I'm really kind of leaning towards not being in favor of the vaccine for small children, but if I hadn't had a nice nasty case of CP when I was about six, and had never had the disease, at my age I'd go on and get the vaccine. Especially if I were a dad, in DrF's case. I think it's even more dangerous for men.

I'm not against vaccines...but I am against the willy nilly mindless string of vaccines without thinking about what you're doing and simply trusting that drug companies have your best interest at heart. They don't. What is best for you is not the same thing as what is best for them. And you can be sure of one thing and one thing only: They are doing what is best for them.

Vaccines are like anything else in the medical or technology field...educate yourself and make an informed decision the best you can. Don't just blindly trust what you are told by people with agendas.

I completely agree that making informed decisions is the best thing to do. The problem is, the vaccine deniers aren't making informed decisions. They're grasping onto poorly done studies, rumor, and celebrity talk and ignoring decades of well grounded scientific research on the subject in an effort to have a "reason" why their kid has autism.

Bear in mind, the vast majority of the vaccines we get today were developed DECADES ago. Smallpox, about 200+ years. Diptheria, tetanus, MMR, were all developed in the 1930's and 1940's. Polio, 1950's.

When the polio vaccine came out, people lined up for MILES to get it.

We give these vaccines as early as is safe to protect kids early, because kids are often most at risk. Some vaccines take more than one dose to build up permanent immunity, which is why we get them in a series. Some vaccines don't confer permanent immunity and we need boosters every so often (tetanus, for example).

I disagreed with Texas's effort to make the HPV vaccine (Gardasil) mandatory. HPV isn't life threatening, not all forms cause cervical cancer, and we already have adequate screening for cervical cancer. There was no need to rush. That being said, I do think it's a smart choice since genital warts is a miserable disease to have to live with, and reducing risk for cancer is a good idea. But that one should be an informed choice, not a government mandate, especially for such a new vaccine.

[lordlundar]

I actually brought this up in my first post

Really?

<goes to check>

Oops!

[Lace Neil Singer]

Also, when the smallpox vaccine first came out, people mistrusted it cuz they thought they'd be turned into cows.

You'd think that people today would have more sense, but it seems not.

[Blue Ginger]

So exactly how bad is CP for an adult? I've never had it, but I got two kids who could get it at any time

I got it at 16. Worst 2 weeks of my life. We were playing 'spot the normal skin'.

My mum is only ever a carrier, not a sufferer. Mum bought it home to me on Monday or Tuesday. I felt like crap on the Thursday. Took the Friday off school with a fever. By Saturday morning, my back and front had lots of spots. By Sat night, I was cover in scattered spots. By Sunday, the spots were in my hair, on my face, palms and soles of feet.

By Monday morning, I had spots in my mouth, throat, ears, nose and behind my eyes. The damn things were internal too. I also had a massive fever, at the end of November in Melbourne. Damn you hot weather + fever.

I was the worst case my doctor had seen. She has been a GP for over 30 years.

I was very very very very lucky that I only have two external scars. I have 3 internal scars though, 2 in the mouth and one in my ear.

A few years later, my dad got Chicken Pox. He was early fifties at the time. He had scabs on scabs and looked like the elephant man. He made my case look mild. Took over a month to get better.

As soon as we heard about a vaccine, mum made my sis get it. She has a pathetic immune system and who knows had bad she would have got it. Just wish we had known about it earlier.

[Eisa]

Dimethylmercury is even worse. But yeah, it's nasty shit, and methylmercury is a byproduct of a lot of industrial processes . . . and it's in our food supply. I'm very thankful I don't like tuna.

See my comment to HYHYBT above It's true, kids spread germs. Getting them not to share things is next to impossible and not worth the effort to try. If they have something serious, it is best to isolate them. But pox parties are unreliable to create immunity, risk unintended serious side effects, and can't match vaccination.

-looks up dimethylmercury- Holy fuck. That stuff sounds scary. Yep, methylmercury is in our food supply, I remember that. It just goes up the food chain in the ocean. And it can cross the placental barrier, if I remember correctly. That was the problem in the 50s in that bay in Japan with the accident. People were getting badly sick, yes, but the pregnant women looked ok-ish...until they gave birth. And just methylmercury can kill, too.

Ah, all right, that's true. I don't know, apparently I was too old to have had the vaccine. I remember I gave the chicken pox to my sister, though. Who was sent to Awanas when she was contagious (they didn't realize she was contagious) and I think she gave it to...a lot of people. Oops.

[BrenDAnn]

I had chicken pox in...fifth or sixth grade, I think? Anyway, I remember how I got it. At my elementary school, they gave the older kids (this is why I say fifth or sixth grade) the opportunity to help serve lunch to the other students. I clearly remember a boy coming through the lunch line with all those lovely red spots on him--why he was there, I have not a clue. Cue me getting chicken pox. I remember lots of itching, and a fever. A little over three years ago, I had a very mild case of shingles on my lower left abdomen. Also, thanks guys...Now I'm all itchy! Gah! As for the mail order thing: stupid, and probably VERY illegal.

[blas87]

I would rather have my children vaccinated than be one of the tin foil hate "It causes autism!" people.

Sure, it's your choice as a parent, but if you don't vaccinate your kid and they give something to a child that is too young to be vaccinated for something, then the blood's on your hands if they can't be helped. Sometimes your right to chose causes harm for others. An episode of Law and Order SVU comes to mind.