Can making an odservation make you racist/sext/whatever....

[HEMI6point1]

....If you really said nothing in the observation like slurs, insults or anything of the sort during the observation?

Four cases in point:

1. A Youtube vlogger posted an opinion about a certain gorgeous blonde actress coming out as a lesbian (Hint: she starred in a failed drama about a certain club named after a men's mag). Personally I think it's a phase but whatever. During the vlog this girl said, "It's not surprising when a woman like [former talk show host host] comes out as lesbian but when a gorgeous woman like [blonde actress] comes out, it makes me wonder what turned her. Was she sexually abused as a child or something?"

Of course, she got a lot of nasty comments ie homophobe gay basher etc etc. But, was it really homophobic or gay bashing? She didn't bash the person or make nasty comments about the person's sexuality, just stating an opinion and making an observation. NOTE: She caved and removed the vlog shortly after it was uploaded.....

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2. A member of an auto enthusiast forum made a post about how stupid "donks" are. For those who don't know, a "donk" is a common name for those cars that are raised up higher and have those giant rims put on them (For the record, I can't stand it when I see these classic cars given the "donk" treatment either). The member stated that it he's only ever since one white guy driving a donk. The rest of the time it's a black guy in the car blasting his gangsta rap. I stayed out of this one, just sat back and watched the thread.

The forum mod made him edit his post citing "racism," threatening to ban him.
But how was it racist? Was slurs like the N word used? How was the guy racist for simply.... making an observation?

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Now time for two things that got ME labeled....

3. I got called a sexist prick once on a debate board a long time ago because I said I wouldn't be surprised if half of all reported rapes are lies by the woman to either move an agenda forward, or get back at a guy for whatever reason.

The thing is, I even wrote that the fake cases are the reason why a lot of women who are legitimately raped are afraid to come forward with it, because a lot of people assumed she's lying about it.

Example of what I'm talking about: Click here

Another example: A long time ago in NY 3 high school girls accused their teacher of sexually assaulting them. The poor guy sat in jail for a year until they admitted they made it up. What did he do to deserve that? Failing them on a college prep test.

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4. One day I was chatting with a few buddies when I told them that "in South Florida, it more than being financially stable to find a girl to date. For reason, if you're not Porto Rican or black, you're screwed if you're a white guy." My friend said, "I know you so I know you didn't mean it to come off as such but if I didn't I would say you're being a little racist there."

Really? When I made no insults or slurs directed at those races? I simply told him, "If I made the observation that you have to be purple skinned with green hair to get a girl down here, I would say that you have to be purple skinned with green hair to get a girl down here! Simple." Nothing racist about that.

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Sorry about this being long....

[Andara Bledin]

Of course, she got a lot of nasty comments ie homophobe gay basher etc etc. But, was it really homophobic or gay bashing? She didn't bash the person or make nasty comments about the person's sexuality, just stating an opinion and making an observation.

Well, yeah, it was gaybashing in a very ignorant fashion. She's essentially saying that women who are gay are that way because they're ugly and can't get men and that for a pretty woman to be a lesbian, she had to have been "turned" by something. The vlogger deserves ridicule for her public show of stupidity.

The member stated that it he's only ever since one white guy driving a donk. The rest of the time it's a black guy in the car blasting his gangsta rap. I stayed out of this one, just sat back and watched the thread.

The forum mod made him edit his post citing "racism," threatening to ban him.
But how was it racist? Was slurs like the N word used? How was the guy racist for simply.... making an observation?

This one is far more touchy, because in this case it's not a matter of actually showing racism, but the appearance of racism. It's a fine line, and some places will be overly cautious in their approach.

No, making a statement of personal observation is not, in and of itself, racist - at least not consciously. But you can still make a statement that you've only ever seen one type of person driving the things without actually naming what type of person that is. That way, you're making the same point, but avoiding making an absolute statement about what that type is.

As for #3 and #4, there are far better ways of making those points that don't tread so close to either the appearance of bigotry or subconscious bigotry.

For #3, you could have stated that a large number of reported rapes turn out to be false and that a lot of damage is done both to the innocent people they accuse and actual victims who fear being tarred by the same brush for coming forward with real claims. Instead, your statement speaks more about your belief on the matter than the matter itself.

For #4, it's much the same. There's a certain tone to the statement that rubs the wrong way. I understand the point you're trying to make, but the way you're making it is probably more personally aggressive to anyone on the other side or otherwise looking to be offended.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

One thing I don't *quite* understand is why neutral observations get classified as racist. For example, back when the cashier still poured your drink at fast food places and I was one, I noticed that Hi-C Orange was virtually never ordered by anyone not black. I'm still curious why, but the point is, there's nothing *wrong* with preferring one drink over another either way. It's just that if, over the course of a year or so, it's that consistent then even I will notice eventually.

[HEMI6point1]

Well, yeah, it was gaybashing in a very ignorant fashion. She's essentially saying that women who are gay are that way because they're ugly and can't get men and that for a pretty woman to be a lesbian, she had to have been "turned" by something. The vlogger deserves ridicule for her public show of stupidity.

Which is why as I edited my OP to included, she deleted it shortly after it was uploaded....

This one is far more touchy, because in this case it's not a matter of actually showing racism, but the appearance of racism. It's a fine line, and some places will be overly cautious in their approach.

Don't want to offend the masses, you know?

No, making a statement of personal observation is not, in and of itself, racist - at least not consciously. But you can still make a statement that you've only ever seen one type of person driving the things without actually naming what type of person that is. That way, you're making the same point, but avoiding making an absolute statement about what that type is.

Yeah, but the issue is that a good bit of those cars are driven by members of the african american community. Even if he did word it like you suggested, it wouldn't take long for the forum to figure out who he was talking about....

For #3, you could have stated that a large number of reported rapes turn out to be false and that a lot of damage is done both to the innocent people they accuse and actual victims who fear being tarred by the same brush for coming forward with real claims. Instead, your statement speaks more about your belief on the matter than the matter itself.

That's one way of wording it, and I completely agree.

For #4, it's much the same. There's a certain tone to the statement that rubs the wrong way. I understand the point you're trying to make, but the way you're making it is probably more personally aggressive to anyone on the other side or otherwise looking to be offended.

The only people who would take offense are non-white people IMO.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, part of it might be why you would even notice the race of who was ordering which drinks. Why would it even matter enough to be stored in long-term memory?

^-.-^

[LewisLegion]

I have to agree with your first example. Yes, the comment was extremely ignorant. Just because something is an opinion does not mean it isn't a racist/sexist/homophobic opinion, and observations can be made stemming from racist/sexist/homophobic opinions. She's basically saying that being a lesbian isn't a natural state, it's something that someone can just 'become' (implying that someone who is homosexual can then 'become' straight). She's also saying that only ugly women or women that hate men/can't get a man are lesbians and because this woman is attractive to the opposite gender then the opposite gender must have done something to make her not attracted to THEM.

Complete and utter ignorance or willful stupidity.

As for 2 and 4, any observation or argument made solely on someone's race, religion, age, or gender is inherantly flirting extremely close to the line or outright crossing it. You are singling out a particular demographic in a negative fashion.

Why say only blacks and hispanics seem to get dates and not white guys, unless you are already making the assumption that race is the deciding factor? Maybe given the population density of that particular area, it is simply statistically more likely to find hispanics or blacks, and therefore more of the people you see dating will be those races? If you say 'it seems like only guys who wear hats get dates around here', people will wonder why you are even expending energy to notice who is wearing a hat or not. If you say, 'it seems like only people who wear plaid can't drive', people wonder why you are even noticing the pattern of their clothing.

Same thing with race. If you are purposefully narrowing your observation strictly on the subjects' race...then people have to wonder why are you so concerned with their ethnicity to actually remember and take note of a pattern emerging? Why are your energies focused on that one defining characteristic?

As for the remaining one, about rape...ehn. Yeah, some women do make it up. And it's a shame that the few cases that exist make it harder for legitamate victims to get the support and belief they need. But do I think it's actually a majority of them? No. Like any other group, it's the loudest or most publicized individuals who get the press. So for every woman out there screaming rape where it's proven false, there are ten who are legitamate victims who are silent....just like for every loud obnoxious Christian out there hollaring about people going to hell there are ten Christians who are quietly going about their business and think those loudmouths are just as idiotic as the rest of the world thinks.

Just remember...if someone from a group is loud and in your face about something or being blazed across newspaper headlines...I almost guarantee you they're the minority of that group.

[BlaqueKatt]

Just remember...if someone from a group is loud and in your face about something or being blazed across newspaper headlines...I almost guarantee you they're the minority of that group.

Unless it's a member of the national yodeling club

[Ginger Tea]

Sometime before or after 9/11 a website chat room I used to frequent got closed down for a bit followed by parts of the forum, after one member logged in to say she had recently been mugged by a group of youths, she had stated their ethnicity, but in doing so it had turned her into the bad guy, leaving the fact she had been mugged and perhaps physically (though not sexualy) assaulted in the side lines.

if she had said "I was mugged by 3 guys" TBH I most of the time would think, without skin colour clarification, she would be on about a white person, as I find on the whole, if anyone white refers to other white people its just "guys" and ethnicity is only brought into it if intentionally bringing it into the description regardless of good or ill deeds.

The webmaster chose to close the chat and parts of the forums as he felt some comments were bordering on racism, yet he made IMO the biggest clanger by saying "my non white friends".

[Rageaholic]

#1 is a false statement based on ignorance. You don't turn gay, you're born that way.

#2: A fine example of oversensitvity.

#3: I can see how this can get people really pissed off. If you've been a victim of something only to hear some statement about how many people make it up, I can see why it would offend. Although in your case, you did use examples of false accusations and stated that you know not all women make it up. It's a touchy subject and I can understand why people may react emotionally.

#4: Sounds like more oversensitivty.

I understand the frusturation though. I think it's one thing if someone makes a false statement that should be corrected (gays were molested), but there comes a time when people need to take a chill pill. I remember a long time ago on another forum, I made a thread ranting about stupid Christians. I never said all Christians were like that, but because I didn't preface it with "I know not all Christians are assholes", I had butthurt Christians accusing me of bigotery.

I get so tired of feeling like I always have to make some disclaimer "I know not all Christians/Republicans/Seniors/Trekkies/Santa's Elves are like this" when ever I post something remotely controversial. People need to realize that if I criticize a group of people who have something in common I am only bashing those select people. I'm thinking of starting a similar thread on that topic because it's something that is bugging me.

[HYHYBT]

Well, part of it might be why you would even notice the race of who was ordering which drinks. Why would it even matter enough to be stored in long-term memory?

^-.-^

It did take a long while for any of it to start sticking. And it's a small town; except for race weekends (not *that* kind of race; the Atlanta Dragway was practically across the street) most of the customers were repeat business.

[guywithashovel]

A couple of times at McDonald's, I have ordered Iced Tea only to have the person think I said Hi-C and give me that. My first drink was quite a shock. I'm Caucasian, too.

I'll admit to sometimes getting my hackles up when people make certain "observations" about groups I belong to. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but from my experience, a lot of the people who do it are actually making a ridiculous generalization and disguising it as an "observation."

[Greenday]

I'm not saying this is the case with you, but from my experience, a lot of the people who do it are actually making a ridiculous generalization and disguising it as an "observation."

Pretty much this. I've seen plenty of people trying to make what they are saying as not racist by posing it as an observation.

My first impressions from reading those were I had problems with 1, 2 and 3. 1 seems like an attempt to generalize gay people, 2 I don't see what the point in mentioning which races drive which cars are and it was related to something he didn't like which implies an extension to black people, and 3 comes off sexist.

4 itself doesn't really make sense to me. Something's off about the wording of the sentence that makes it make no sense to me.

[HEMI6point1]

#1 is a false statement based on ignorance. You don't turn gay, you're born that way.

I once got blasted for saying this same thing on a message board a long time ago. One of the members told me his step-daughter was "perfectly straight" before she went to college, then when she came home 6 months later she announced she was a lesbian and had a girlfriend. He said that she wasn't like that until she befriended a lesbian.

But all in all, I think you're right. Multiple studies have proven that you're born gay, and you don't realize it until later on. Sure a traumatic event like abuse may trigger someone to realize it faster, but I don't think it's possible to "turn."

[Gravekeeper]

Generally speaking if you're about to make a negative observation based on race, gender or orientation, its probably best to just shut up. Its too fine a line to walk and someone is going to see you slip even if you don't. -.-

[bara]

#1 Pure ignorance on the part of the poster. Clearly the poster has no actual knowledge of homosexuality that isnt delivered by a right wing news pundit.

2. Most likely accidental. But could be passive aggressive.

3. I would believe that many cases of sexual harassment are false, but I dont think many rape accusations are false.