NJ Supreme Court Upholds Decals for Under 18s Law

[Andara Bledin]

Up here its to identify an inexperienced driver so you can be more cautious of them and courteous towards them.

All that does is provide a false sense of security that people without those markers actually know what the hell they're doing.

We'd all be better off if we just assumed that everybody else on the road was inexperienced and behaved accordingly, particularly when my personal experience has had me nearly involved in accidents with about a dozen people who all were old enough to know better. Hell, the few times where I was at fault were all well past when I would have graduated from having to display an age marker.

As far as I can tell, all the marker does is give the cops an excuse to hassle younger drivers without waiting for them to actually do something wrong.

^-.-^

[TheHuckster]

The thing I must be missing about all of this is isn't it easy to tell the age of the driver by... I don't know... looking in the window? Sure, you can't really tell the identity of the driver from behind but you can usually tell quickly if you're passing them.

[Greenday]

The thing I must be missing about all of this is isn't it easy to tell the age of the driver by... I don't know... looking in the window? Sure, you can't really tell the identity of the driver from behind but you can usually tell quickly if you're passing them.

No. I have a friend who will be 22 this month. She looks like she should still be in high school. Meanwhile, I look older than my age.

And Gravekeeper, this stupid law was a kneejerk "Think of the children!" thing as it is.

[Aethian]

NJ has the worst driving laws. This is almost as bad as the Under 8 or 80 law (A law that stated if you were under 8 years old OR under 80 lbs., you had to be in a car seat.)

Bit off topic but I like this idea, some of my cousins at 8 weren't big enough to have the seatbelts sit right on them. Even with those adjuster things they still fit the kids wrong so a booster as well as a adjuster thing and the kid was safer.

Back to your original thread topic...

[Hyena Dandy]

Why do we NEED to know how old the driver is?

You're in a vehicle weighing at least 3,000 pounds. You're keeping in a lane, and going faster than human beings were intended to go, even when you're going relatively SLOWLY. You're usually driving very near people NOT surrounded by 3000 pounds of metal and plastic, and you yourself are surrounded by people also surrounded by 3000 pounds of metal and plastic.

This isn't a knock on cars. I'd like cars.

I just don't think there's any point during your superspeeded 3000 pound trek where you should NOT be taking care.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Yes. Let's say I was 17 and only drove my mom's car. We'd legally be forced to put the decals on her car. So then God forbid she's ever driving after midnight, she'd probably get pulled over because 17 year olds aren't allowed to drive after midnight.

I can not tell you how goddamned many times that has happened to my wife and I.

It got to the point that whenever I was driving past midnight (I worked second shift and got home around 12:30 in the morning) and I saw lights pulling me over I'd wait for the police officer to say "Do you know why I pulled you over?" and I would respond with "The red decal on my license plate?"

I do not speed. That's why Detroit invented "Cruise Control", I do not drive like an asshole and I try to keep my car in good repair so it's rarely a busted light. I'd have to say that 19 times out of 20 it's that goddamned decal.

The officer usually just asks for license, registration and proof of insurance goes back to his car, and then comes back with them and send me on my way causing me to have to come home at 12:45am.

Then there was the time I had to pull overtime. I didn't get out of work until midnight. An hour and a half drive and I was stopped 4 times by 4 different officers. Two Township police and a pair of troopers.

Never was I so glad to have left a state in all my life. It took New Jersey to teach me a new word. Kakistocracy

Or simply a Government run by the least competent.

[Seifer]

It's the same concept as those Baby On Board signs. Just because you know someone young is in the car doesn't mean you're going to crash into them any slower.

[fireheart17]

Up here its to identify an inexperienced driver so you can be more cautious of them and courteous towards them.

Key word being courteous.

We have a slightly similar system to yours (Learner for six-12 months depending on state, then your provisional licence for 2-3 years, in both cases, you need to display bright L or P plates). I cannot tell you how many times people cut me off, failed to use their indicators or similar, when I had my L and P-plates on.

My male friends have said that when they had their P-Plates on, they always got pulled over for a "random" breath test.

Although there is one thing that you CAN'T factor in down here and that's age. Reason why? well, if you happen to receive a licence disqualification, you are bumped down a grade. So if you were previously on your full licence, you're downgraded to provisional 2. provisional 2 gets downgraded to provisional 1. Provisional 1 gets downgraded to Learners and Learners have to sit the theory test all over again before they can drive

(My driving instructor used to refer to the VORT test as "the test for stupids" given that it was mostly people who had previously lost their licence who would sit it to get their P's back as quick as possible)

[Blue Ginger]

My male friends have said that when they had their P-Plates on, they always got pulled over for a "random" breath test.

I had to laugh when I got pulled over for a 'random' driver/car safety check when I was on my P's. They had set up in a small carpark. Every one of the approx 20 cars had L or P plates.

My car was about 10 years old but spotless, yet the coppers failed to pull over the piece of shit rust bucket that was belching smoke in front of me? Great car safety check.

Although my dad always laughed when he would forget to take the P's down. Picture a car with butterflies across the back window and P plates displayed. The poor guys who tired to get a look in the chicks car were always a bit shocked.

[Jetfire]

The decal sounds like the wrong way to go about doing it.

What it should be IMO, is a window decal or placard you can easily put up and remove, but otherwise it has to be visible from the rear window. And it would apply for everyone under the restricted licensing; regardless of age, as an indicator of someone who is still effectively 'learning to drive'.

From the description the decal method seems to be trying to 'solve' a minor problem in completely the wrong way, when less insane methods are available. *sigh*

[Ginger Tea]

In the UK I would have to display green then red or the other way round L plates (or do we have that P one too I forget) and I am almost 40 as we are displaying them as new / learner drivers, so alot of the States way of doing things or just NJ I don't know, seem backwards.

would a new driver have to display such plates if they took up driving in their 20's?
I know hollywood always depicts teens in cars going to highschool save for the ones too young to learn, but I'm sure there are some who cannot afford a car or lessons at that age and wait till after university age (if they even go)

[Greenday]

would a new driver have to display such plates if they took up driving in their 20's?

If they are 21 or older, no.

[Beckpatton]

Definite age descrimintation.

I have no problem with decals or placards being used to display what the drivers current licence status is, learner, probatioary etc. But that should apply to every driver, not just ones of a certain age!

Like other Aussies have already posted, we have L & P plates (placards that go on the front and rear windscreens). In Victoria, it's a yellow learner plate, then a red P plate for the first year, and green P plate for the next 2 years, (As there are different restrictions for red & green). This helps the police identify people who may be breaking the rules of their current licence, like too many passengers etc. But this applies to ALL P platers, no matter if they're 18 or 80. Plenty of people in my circle of family & friends waited until they were 20 or older to go for their licence, but they still had to follow the same guidelines I did at 18.

Grown people who immigrate here from other countries, and who are already licenced also have to go through their P's, they don't get to skip straight to a full licence (they just have less restrictions regarding the learner period) and they could have decades of driving experience back home.

This Jersey law, if I'm understanding correctly, is blatant age descrimintation. If it was to try and protect inexperienced drivers, age wouldn't be a factor. Just because you waited until you were 25 to start driving doesn't automatically make you a better driver than someone who's 18. Life experience does not automatically = driving experience.

[fireheart17]

Like other Aussies have already posted, we have L & P plates (placards that go on the front and rear windscreens). In Victoria, it's a yellow learner plate, then a red P plate for the first year, and green P plate for the next 2 years, (As there are different restrictions for red & green). This helps the police identify people who may be breaking the rules of their current licence, like too many passengers etc. But this applies to ALL P platers, no matter if they're 18 or 80. Plenty of people in my circle of family & friends waited until they were 20 or older to go for their licence, but they still had to follow the same guidelines I did at 18.

I was almost 20 when I went for my L's. I will be 22 when I get my full licence in December this year, my birthday is next week. All of my friends either have their full, or are on it. And a friend of mine is 23 and not on his L's at all.

In SA, I think the only age-restricted guidelines for people on L/P plates are as follows:

-If you're over 25, you only need to hold your L's for six months. Anything under that and it's 12 months. Both groups still need to do 75 hours driving though (15 of those are at night)
-If you're under 25, you can't drive high-powered cars regardless of what stage you're at on your licence.
-If you're under the age of 19 and you incurred demerit points while you're on your P1's, you need to hold said P1's for 2 years total.
-You need to be sixteen to get your L's.

In SA, we have no P2 plates, but our licences will say if we're P2 or not. My boyfriend and I are both on our P2's. Little sister is on her P1's still. Even though she's more than eligible to sit the P2 test (no demerits), she just hasn't done it. I can get my full licence in December. Boyfriend will get his full licence in October/November.