Man in Need of Medical Care Killed by Police

[Andara Bledin]

This is a matter that I honestly believe is not actually the fault of the police. It's a large dash of ignorance all around, and a dispatcher not providing accurate information.

Jack Lamar Roberson shot by police after diabetic overdose (article at Daily Mail)

It started off with neither his fiance or mother knowing how to deal with an overdose of medication by a diabetic. In this case, the cure is sugar. (which is why I hated the plot of Con Air) Had either of the other two adults in the house been aware of this basic fact, they would have had no need to call 9-1-1.

However, it is possible that they didn't realize it until after his sugar levels had crashed dangerously low, in which case they may not have been capable of administering the sugar. During one crash, my diabetic husband told me he was a shark and he'd bite me if I got too close. The fact that the brain needs blood sugars to function properly is not well understood despite how common an ailment diabetes is.

The police entered a situation where they were first told that the individual was suicidal and then were updated that he was possibly violent. Had the dispatcher told them to expect someone likely to be not mentally competent due to a medical condition, I am almost positive the encounter would have played out in a different manner entirely.

[Gravekeeper]

This is a matter that I honestly believe is not actually the fault of the police. It's a large dash of ignorance all around, and a dispatcher not providing accurate information.

Seems like a colossal systematic failure all around. That said, the witnesses disagree with the police on every point of how this went down. That's the part that bothers me.

The family is adamant he was unarmed and did not threaten the officers, and that the officers did not say anything to him before opening fire.

The police say he was wielding two "items" ( The police chief refuses to identify what they were ) and advanced on them with one item raised. While not complying with their orders to drop said items.

They shot him right in front of his mother, fiancee and 8 year old daughter.

[Panacea]

The fact that the brain needs blood sugars to function properly is not well understood despite how common an ailment diabetes is.

I'm not sure where you got this idea. Actually, the mechanism is fairly well understood.

Glucose is carried into body cells by the hormone insulin. Once there, it is metabolised by oxygen and ATP creating aeorbic respiration. The energy released is carried by the ATP within the cells to fuel its functions. Bear in mind, that's highly oversimplified.

In any case, I read the article. The fiance called 911 and asked for EMS. The cops arrived instead. Here's why.

She told 911 the man was behaving erratically. In situations like that, the safety of the paramedics comes first. No paramedic goes into a potentially dangerous situation until the scene is safe. That's why the cops when in first; to secure the scene.

Unfortunately, the situation escalated. The officers were not given accurate information. Had they known about the diabetes, they might have approached things differently, although if they thought he had a weapon he still might have been shot.

This whole situation sounds lose lose to me.

[Duelist925]

I'm not sure where you got this idea. Actually, the mechanism is fairly well understood.

Glucose is carried into body cells by the hormone insulin. Once there, it is metabolised by oxygen and ATP creating aeorbic respiration. The energy released is carried by the ATP within the cells to fuel its functions. Bear in mind, that's highly oversimplified.

*snip(

I think she meant its not really common knowledge.

[Andara Bledin]

I think she meant its not really common knowledge.

Right. I meant by the general public.

Sure, doctors and nurses and those who educate themselves know. But most people have no clue how it works.

Thus, the entire crisis that's the trigger for the movie Con Air. >_>

[Panacea]

Right. I meant by the general public.

Sure, doctors and nurses and those who educate themselves know. But most people have no clue how it works.

Thus, the entire crisis that's the trigger for the movie Con Air. >_>

Sorry; I misunderstood.

In Con Air the issue was the inmate needed his insulin. That means his blood sugar was high, not low. You can have similar symptoms, but it has to get really high for that; an otherwise healthy individual getting insulin on a regular basis (since the inmate knew what he needed, the implication he was) is unlikely to be that brittle.

The Con Air plot was pretty stupid, but is the opposite of what happened with the real life situation.

[Kelmon]

This is a matter that I honestly believe is not actually the fault of the police.

Sorry, what?

Unless the man was pointing a firearm at the policemen or running at them with a knife (I higly doubt it - the police would otherwise be happy to say what those "weapons" were.), police should be trained enough to deal with a situation like this without shooting to kill. Someone lost his life. This is not just a "tiny little mistake" the police made.

[Andara Bledin]

Sorry, what?

Exactly what I said: I don't believe this is the police officer's fault. I think it's the dispatcher's fault. The police were told they were going into a violent situation and all of their actions would have been informed by that information.

I've been in the presence (far too often) of someone close to me with dangerously low blood sugar. The threat of being bitten wasn't the only time my safety was threatened by my own husband because he was incapable of acting rationally.

What happened was a tragedy, and it could have been avoided. I just think that the police are possibly one of the least responsible for how things fell out.

[Nyoibo]

Look at it this way, they keep saying he was shot in front of his 8 year old daughter, that means the police were going into what they were told was a violent situation with the added worries of there being a child in the area that they have to protect, the ball was dropped many times here, the least amount on the polices part from what I can gather from the story.

[Andara Bledin]

And now we have more details about the situation. The recording of the 9-1-1 call is the source.

Article at U-T San Diego

According to the recording released by police, the man had at some point overturned a refrigerator and stated that he "wants to die," in addition to originally having taken "a couple of big handfuls of pills" and drinking.

Police are also now stating that the items that had been in his hands were a meat fork and what appeared to be a knife. It had been reported that he had been in the kitchen immediately prior, so that makes sense. According to the report of the first person on scene after the shooting, the meat fork was to one side, near his hand while another utensil, not identified, was beneath his feet.

When the emergency operator, who had her on the phone for three minutes, asked if he was being combative, his fiance responded, "Yeah. He threw the refrigerator down and threw glass everywhere and stuff. He broke his TV and everything."

And when she asked that only paramedics would be coming, the operator told her that both police and paramedics had been notified.

So, I stand by my original assessment; The police were not to blame in this incident. However, I also no longer blame either the operator or dispatcher as it's become plainly obvious that the information they passed on matched the information they had been given.

[Panacea]

I agree. I don't blame the cops; if he had a meat fork that can be used as a stabbing weapon, and a knife definitely is bad news.

The paramedicas can't approach until the scene is safe, like I discussed earlier.

Dispatchers did give the right information to the cops.

It sucks all around, but nothing about this situation would have been good for the 8 year old.

[Aethian]

My ex got to be on the receiving end of low bs with me. Let me tell you I turn into one combative bitch when I dip below 70. Below 100 and I start to get moody, my good happy range is 100-120 which by definition is too high.

I just wish there would had been a easier way to tell him about my low bs readings. But I don't think he ever understood them. Hell when I tried showing him how to do my shot once he bolted cause of the needles.

So I don't blame the cops at all. They didn't go in with the right information. The person who called should have come right out in the first place and stated "My guy is experiencing low blood sugar and is extremely combative and we can't get him to eat anything." That right there gives the operator the info that it's a medical emergency as well as a police emergency.

[hinakiba777]

Having read the follow up information I have to agree that while a horrible situation, the police were not totally at fault. They were told they were entering a situation with a violent, and suicidal individual who had a grilling fork and a knife. The victim's fiancee told the dispatcher that he had knocked over the fridge, broken the TV, consumed alcohol and many pills, and said he "wanted to die." They even told the caller that both police and EMTs were coming. It's tragic, but it's not the officers faults.

I remember when my friend called the paramedics for me after I called her because i was feeling suicidal. The police entered my apartment and talked to me before even allowed the EMTs in. They had to make sure I wasn't a danger, which is standard.