"Rich" kid kills 4, gets probation.

[Jester]

We can sit here and debate what is and what is not an appropriate sentence for the kid in question. And there are points to be made all around in that discussion.

But let's be REALLY clear here. If some poor kid, or me, or you, or someone else without money, had a prior history of incidents involving alcohol, and went out and got hammered and caused injuries and death even remotely like this kid did, that person would be in jail, and would be sentenced to prison. Period.

It's a fact of the US "justice" system that poor people get harsher sentences than rich people, that rich people often get off with probation or less for violations that routinely send poor people away for years, and that non-whites get far harsher sentences than whites for the exact same crimes.

This kid is the poster child of what is wrong with our criminal "justice" system. If you have money and you're white, you are far, far, FAR more likely to walk.

And this is not my opinion, this is factual, backed up by statistics compiled by the very justice system under discussion. They don't advertise this, of course, but these facts are there. Look it up.

My personal opinion? If they had locked this kid up, I'd have no problem with it. But there was almost no chance of that happening because, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, he's white and he's rich.

Welcome to America.

[Andara Bledin]

And just like prison, they will only get out what they put in. Considering this kid doesn't think he did anything wrong, how will this help?

Fun fact which all of you screaming for prison keep ignoring: If he doesn't straighten out, he will be going to prison.

What part of ten years of probation isn't sinking in?

[ebonyknight]

You know what prison accomplishes? It teaches criminals how to be better criminals. It helps them become organized and to make connections. Dealing drugs? Let's help you figure out which drugs make a better profit, easier distribution, connections etc. Robbing people? How to better work in teams, handle security systems, etc. On and on.

As someone else said to me, how is that germane to the case?

Meanwhile, rehab is solely focused on helping people get over their addictions or what have you and give them the tools they need to actually handle being in polite society without recommitting.

And just like prison, they will only get out what they put in. Considering this kid doesn't think he did anything wrong, how will this help?

At least if this kid had his freedom removed, (juvi system or not), he will have time to reflect on what he did, and it will be a stern reminder that his conduct is not to be condoned. All we have now (potentially), he goes on vacation for a year and when he gets back, will have learned nothing. I don't know how he can "focus" on rehab, with all those distractions and when he still hasn't even acknowledged what he did, when faced with evidence and results, months later.

[Peppergirl]

There seems to be a bizarrely large number of bleeding hearts on this board overall, but most real ppl here like the idea that prison is meant to be a miserable experience that destroys you just fine, thanks.

Dispense with the personal attacks. Debate your point or move along.

[wolfie]

Of all the crimes he committed, the (IMNSHO) least serious one on its own would have got a poor kid a harsher sentence than this guy got. What crime is that? One nobody seems to have mentioned yet in this thread - underage drinking. This happened in Texas - imagine what some poor black 16 year old would have got if he'd been caught standing on the corner minding his own business after getting boozed up.

His blood alcohol level was 3 times the legal amount for an adult, *24* times the legal amount for a driver under 21.

Last I heard, Texas was part of the U.S., where the minimum drinking age is 21. How can there be a NONZERO legal limit for a driver under 21, since (driving or not) it's illegal for them to have been drinking in the first place?

[Greenday]

You know what prison accomplishes? It teaches criminals how to be better criminals. It helps them become organized and to make connections. Dealing drugs? Let's help you figure out which drugs make a better profit, easier distribution, connections etc. Robbing people? How to better work in teams, handle security systems, etc. On and on.

Meanwhile, rehab is solely focused on helping people get over their addictions or what have you and give them the tools they need to actually handle being in polite society without recommitting.

[ebonyknight]

That method has been proven to be broken at best and completely counterproductive to making the world a better/safer place. Punishment does absolutely jack in making things better. Rehabilitation, on the other hands, prevents criminals from re-offending.

Jack? It keeps them from re offending, in society. How many criminals would have continued their crimes if they weren't put away? If, after going to this program, he goes out and does the same thing again, what will you have to say then? Granted the system isn't perfect, no system is!

Prisons, do have rehabilitation programs. They have programs for alcohol abuse, education programs (for post high school degrees) and therapy programs. The problem is, most of the prisoners, don't want to participate in them! The ones that do, typically don't re offend and rejoin society. Again, it's personal responsibility, not the system.

After six months of seeing the consequences of his actions, during trial, he STILL isn't remorseful. After hearing the testimony, seeing the pain he has caused on the faces of those he has hurt, even after knowing he has turned one of his passengers into a vegetable, showing no remorse, you think he can be rehabilitated?

BTW, prison sentences serve another purpose beside just getting them away from society. It gives the perpetrator an opportunity for days, months and years, to THINK about what they've done. It's time that is supposed to be used towards self reflection and an inventory of faults they need to correct. It's the reason, before being released on parole, they have to admit, they committed the crime, they were sentenced to. Again, you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. If they choose to not to take advantage of the programs and opportunities to reflect on what they've done, it's a personal fault. Not society's. No one got them into that prison cell, but THEM.

Unfortunately, it appears that (just like he has been living all along), he will not have to take responsibility for what he's done. I doubt while riding his assigned horse, or taking martial arts classes, he is going to be doing any thinking about what he's done. Even if there is therapy, he's going to be thinking about those other things, not concentrating on rehab, with all those distractions. Boring? It sure shouldn't be fun.

And yes, I do agree that there are a lot of bleeding hearts on this board. I'm not one of them as anyone here can tell you.

...........

[Greenday]

Well, you hit the nail on the head, realize it or not. UNWANTED ppl...that means we don't want them! I don't want to see them rehabilitated, I don't want to see them "better", I want to see them slap miserable and SUFFERING...that's why it's called PUNISHMENT, not happy happy joy joy self improvement time.

There seems to be a bizarrely large number of bleeding hearts on this board overall, but most real ppl here like the idea that prison is meant to be a miserable experience that destroys you just fine, thanks.

That method has been proven to be broken at best and completely counterproductive to making the world a better/safer place. Punishment does absolutely jack in making things better. Rehabilitation, on the other hands, prevents criminals from re-offending.

And yes, I do agree that there are a lot of bleeding hearts on this board. I'm not one of them as anyone here can tell you. I'm a cold bastard. But the fact that even I'm behind rehabilitation over punishment should tell you something.

[Fire_on_High]

I guess we (that is, our government) just see prisons not as a place to lock away unwanted people, but rather one that helps them to "get better", to become productive members of society again. And going by this principle - what would be the point to lock up people for extremely long times?

Well, you hit the nail on the head, realize it or not. UNWANTED ppl...that means we don't want them! I don't want to see them rehabilitated, I don't want to see them "better", I want to see them slap miserable and SUFFERING...that's why it's called PUNISHMENT, not happy happy joy joy self improvement time.

There seems to be a bizarrely large number of bleeding hearts on this board overall, but most real ppl here like the idea that prison is meant to be a miserable experience that destroys you just fine, thanks.

[s_stabeler]

By giving them stuff to do, it keeps people from getting bored. Boredom leads to relapse. Just because they advertise the fun stuff doesn't mean it includes the boring therapy.

when the place advertises based on how fun the place is, I doubt it is the type of place you want to send a kid who has killed people. Not to mention, as said, the place is designed to prevent people going wrong- in which case, it makes sense that it is a fun place.

Not to mention, the rich kid needs two main lessons: 1) that actions have consequences- so a prison stay may actually have value there, no matter how long, 2) to value other human beings- the kid has NO remorse for the fat that his actions killed 4 people. That shows he doesn't believe that other people's lives even matter- and I doubt a place where you get professionally cooked meals included as well as having your own horse assigned is particularly conductive to that.

[Gravekeeper]

I hope that the therapy includes FAMILY therapy, because looking at this case from all sides, I have concluded that HE has been crying out to his parents for any type of attention for a long time.

I doubt his parents are worried about anything aside from how much money this is costing them. The lawsuits will likely clean them out and the father's business is being torn apart online. Its website has been taken down and the Google reviews for it are pretty raging. It's not helped by the fact that both parents have not said a word or even identified themselves ( their names are coming from the lawsuits filed against them ) while their kid gets his name plastered across the news.

Since the kid was driving his dad's company truck he opened the company to liability as well.

THe court documents for the lawsuit reveal a lot more information than the news articles so far:

The lawsuit shows that dad lent him the truck, he didn't take it, and that his license was actually prohibited from driving while unaccompanied by a guardian. His license also prohibits him form having more than one passenger and Texas law also prohibits driving with underage passengers in the truck bed. Additionally, the speed limit was 40 ( he was doing 70 when he hit everyone ) and he was racing through a residential area at night

His blood alcohol level was 3 times the legal amount for an adult, *24* times the legal amount for a driver under 21. He was not watching the road at the time and was using his cell phone. He was in the wrong lane as well. In addition to striking the 4 people and the parked car with a flat tire, he also hit one other car. 4 people were killed. 9 were injured. Except for him, he was uninjured. Oh, and he had alcohol with him in the vehicle. So he was drinking, driving, speeding and fucking with his cell phone with 6 passengers 5 of whom were just sitting in the open bed of the truck. And in spite of his license restrictions and history of drinking, dad permitted him to drive a company truck.

He was arrested three months prior to the accident for underage drinking and pleaded no contest. His mother attended that case and sentencing and thus was clearly aware of her son's drinking problems.

In total he violated 16 laws by the looks of it.

The court documents also note that the kid who is in a vegetative coma was not present at Ethan's home prior to this. In other word's Ethan got liquored up at home with stolen beer and then picked up his friends. Some or all of whom would thus be unaware of how much he had had to drink.

Seriously, there isn't a single redeeming aspect about this scenario. Every new layer points to an additional act of redeemable stupidity or negligence by this kid and his parents.

[Titi]

I hope that the therapy includes FAMILY therapy, because looking at this case from all sides, I have concluded that HE has been crying out to his parents for any type of attention for a long time. He got caught driving at 13 (parents don't want to discuss it), so then he gets caught with the 14 year old (gets fined, parents don't want to talk with him about it) and now this.

[Gravekeeper]

I was going to let you see the website of the place, but for some reason, the name of the place isn't mentioned in searches.

Newport Academy. For anyone interested.

[Gravekeeper]

By giving them stuff to do, it keeps people from getting bored. Boredom leads to relapse. Just because they advertise the fun stuff doesn't mean it includes the boring therapy.

It does have the treatment side of things, that's not the problem. The problem is the place is a 6 acre farking luxury resort. Its nicer than any place I've ever stated or vacationed in. You've got horse riding ( You're literally assigned your own personal horse ), yoga, martial arts, meditation, an all organic menu ( Personalized to you ) by a certified organic chef, its own gym, a disgustingly beautiful resort "campus", you name it. His "dorm" even has its own private pool.

Here's his "dorm" if you want to take a look.

Additionally, people don't usually stay at this place for a year. Its normally 45-90 days. They've never treated anyone for longer than that before according to an interview with their spokesmen. They don't sound particularly thrilled that this kid is being handed to them either to be honest.

Basically, he should have been sent to this place before, not after he killed people. Because that's what it sounds like the place is for. Heading off disaster, not mopping up after it. This is a place where you get hugs at a bench around a fountain in a beautiful villa ( Fountain villa hugs feature in a lot of their promo vids -.- ). I'd be interested to see if he can even integrate into the place. Yes, he'll be surrounded by other troubled teens. But he'll be the only one with a body count. This could backfire horribly if the other kids reject him for it.

Meanwhile, the kid he paralyzed has hospital bills topping 1 million dollars now, his older brother had to quit his job to take care of him full time and they're looking at 20 million or so to pay for the full time care and medical treatment he'll need for the rest of his life.

But the person that did this too him gets a pony?

[ebonyknight]

Do you actually know that the rehab facility is like that? Just because it's a nice place with fun activities doesn't mean they don't do what they're supposed to.

I was going to let you see the website of the place, but for some reason, the name of the place isn't mentioned in searches. I heard the name of the place on a news show and they showed pictures of the facility. I really wish I could get a year there. The place is better than any vacation I have been on. He gets professionally cooked meals, cooking classes, one on one nutritional counseling and he gets assigned his own horse for the stay.

Fortunately, the was what was proposed by the defense. I have a feeling that the Judge (especially because of the outrage), won't approve Ethan to go there and will find something more "appropriate".

I guess we will have to see, but I have a feeling the fervor will die down before that happens.